Wonder Woman

Could be Tartarus too.

Behold the story behind the cover that created Donna!

Sasha looks at the Impossible Tales of Wonder woman!

TRUST NOTHING THAT COME FROM PARADISE ISLAND!

-is dragged away by the Amazon hit squad-

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Feb 12th 2024 at 9:17:47 AM

If Silver Age Wonder Woman was more popular, I'd like to think a modern writer would do something interesting examining/recontextualizing this era's Diana breaking the fourth wall so casually like that.

I've posted most of this before, but that stretch of time, between the Golden Age and Post Crisis, The Silver/Bronze Age, is my least favorite part of Wonder Woman's "main" comic books. I've stated Robert Kaniger could write good stories with the right editor overseeing him. I've said individual Silver/Bronze age stories can be enjoyable enough in a vacuum, ignoring the mess that is the continuous run, but as a whole that stretch of comic books are the messiest comic books Wonder Woman's been involved in. More than John Byrne, more than New 52, more than that story where Doctor Psycho was her ally and she fought that bastardized Morrigan. More than that else world where Grant Morrison had her try to put a slave collar on a black man for some role play and ended with the brainwashing of every man on Earth(I think Marston was misinformed too but am pretty sure that wasn't ever going to be his end goal, Morrison!)

Like, the issues where Wonder Woman broke the fourth wall shouldn't have been examined or reexamined in a different context because Kaniger explicitly stated these issues where she was doing so were not in any way related to what was going on in the rest of DC Comics, except he frequently forgot to keep mentioning that fact. He forgot in the issue he retired the concept by directly referring to the next arc! You know why the Flash of Two Worlds Earth# Multiverse, however you may personally feel about it, succeeded where "The Impossible Tales/Wonder Family" failed, evidenced by the acknowledged existence of "Golden Agers"? Some of the reasons anyway were that the multiverse was mostly consistent and always consistently explained. There were heavy handed metaphors, charts, diagrams! It might take a few panels, it might take an entire page, but the comics did their best to make sure you knew exactly what was going on when the DC Multiverse was the subject.

Admittedly, I haven't read most of the Impossible Tales/Wonder Woman Family stories. I couldn't tolerate another at, like, number 5, and I think I've repressed the memory of most of what I did read(The Bug Hunt and Bird Cage actually seem on brand for Pre Crisis Wonder Woman, I might actually seek those out). That lady making youtube videos has a lot more patience, and probably a better sense of humor, than I do. But I distinctly recognized those what ifs doing damage to actual "main" stories. It was the "imaginary" stories that planted the seeds of Hippolyta being a Manipulative Bastard who recorded, extracted and hid Diana's own memories from her, whose wishy washy reign let to a schism that saw several amazons depart for the jungles of South America. This characterization even bled "back" into Hippolyte when pressure from DC's marketing team, due to the success of the 1975 television show, lead to a switch back to the Golden Age Earth 2 and the second World War, even though World War 2 was over in the actual Golden Age comic books. The plot holes Donna Troy was created to fill are fairly well known, but the plotting in general of the Silver Age/Bronze Age Wonder Woman is overall haphazard. The failure to keep the "Impossible Tales" separate from the "main" story lines, the way Marvel did with its own "Watcher" framed "What If?" comic books, is a major contributing factor.

Edited by IndirectActiveTransport on Feb 13th 2024 at 9:26:26 AM

There are long-standing rumors that Kannigher seriously disliked Wonder Woman and just wrote it for the money.

I'm not really convinced Kannigher was a great writer to begin with. I've heard Black Canary and Batman fans complain about him to, but I'll stick to my guns. A good editor could direct him to good things. Kannigher being the editor was probably a mistake...if 1960s DC actually valued editorial that much to begin with.

They at least got the multiverse right enough. The multiverse editorial wanted too anyway. Wonder Woman comic books had a multiverse Flash of Two Worlds. Have we seen that in hyper time? You'd think that'd be there before the Wonder Woman family Impossible Tales, maybe have an Earth #.

What do you mean about 60's DC not valuing editorial? Everything I know about the period suggests that editorial steered the ship at DC - Weisinger with the Superman books especially, but also Schwartz calling shots on Batman and Justice League.

Kanigher creating Egg Fu is reason enough to discount his entire run. Why that character keeps showing up, I will never understand.

Then again, DC has never had the most sensitive depiction of Asian people.

The Evil Doctor Bolty? I mean that the failure to keep the "main" ongoing story lines clearly distinct from the what ifs is such a huge failure in continuity editing that I refuse to believe DC actually valued what a continuity editor is supposed to be doing.

I don't know if you're familiar with, say, The Pirates Of The Caribbean, but that's a franchise that went dead because of poor continuity editing in its last film, and I'm pretty sure Wonder Woman would have went the same way if DC didn't have a publish or lose contract at the time. Admittedly, I'm not the biggest DC Comics fan, so much as a comic book fan with a slant towards superheroes, with Wonder Woman being the DC super hero I find most interesting(I don't consider Morpheus a superhero). Maybe I'm misinformed, and most of the other DC books at the time were actually tight about their details, but as stated, I've heard Batman and Black Canary fans complain about the same writer, which gives me the impression DC's editors were just doing an all around poor job of cleaning up his messes and no one was on them to right the ships.

There was a fun 12-issue or so late early Bronze Age story about Wonder Woman doing a twelve labors thing to gain readmittance to the JLA.

I remember it mainly for issue #215, which had Aquaman almost die due to lack of water and being saved by soda pop, but also had Mars attempt to start a war between Atlantis and the Amazons to regain his strength, with Wonder Woman and Aquaman working together to stop him and call off the war. Which is kinda funny/sad when you think about the Flashpoint universe.

I liked Kaniger's take on Circe well enough for what I had come to expect from Golden Age Wonder Woman. The fact she had tainted literally every drop of water on her planet, that was quite the intimidating villain setup, and it was kind of cool to see Wonder Woman deal with the giant trap of a world competently, even if there were some holes in Kaniger's logic.

Even as Kaniger began writing Wonder Woman as more timid and whiny, there were still some stories I had a soft spot for. I really didn't like it when he started putting this characterization on the Golden Age Wonder Woman, back when the book moved back to Earth 2, but if one can just pretend it's still Silver Age Wonder Woman stuff like 113 is tolerable.

This morning I learned about a Wonder Woman villain named Osira! I've seen pictures of her before, heard about her before, but today I realized she is not Mikra, The Wonder Woman villain I was already knew, but an entirely new Ancient Egypt themed conquering villain that just so happens to look exactly like Diana! Seriously, just look at the pictures without context and tell me you knew it was supposed to be a new character, rather than Mikra in different clothes! Why are there two such characters, both on "Earth One" no less? Apparently neither one has been used since Crisis, and that's too bad. There should be an arc that begins with Faruka II calling Diana to ask about why there's two women with Diana's face fighting in Giza. If one is a friend of hers, to check if the mirror folk are acting up again. Or maybe a scenario where Diana takes out Mikra only to be immediately attacked by Osira the very second Mikra is no longer in sight, with Osira not even having any knowledge of Mikra! Either case should lead to the nations of the region exposing each other's dirty laundry at the next UN summit as the Themysciran ambassador innocently inquires about why she suddenly has doppelgangers. Jordan's ambassador reveals Egypt has been experimenting with Wonder Woman's genetic for decades. Egypt's shamefully reveals all their tests lead to nothing but vegetarian cats, and insist it's all Sudan's doing. Sudan's man says their stash of Wonder Woman mitochondria was stolen and that it's an Israeli conspiracy. Israel's claims innocence by admitting their Wonder Woman duplicate had brown eyes and got herself electrocuted while learning how to fly before suggesting she investigate China and it's knockoff Justice League before the upcoming East Asian summit.

Kannigher could be an excellent writer. His work on Sgt Rock and Enemy Ace is brilliant stuff. I just don't think Wonder Woman was his cup of tea.

Edited by Robbery on Feb 19th 2024 at 12:49:26 PM

Am i the only one that really liked the Taco Whiz storyline? The setup was kinda contrived but I really liked Diana taking the job seriously and even feeling sad at being paid to feed people.

EDIT: Also sad but not surprised that not a lot has been done with Lyta Milton, the daughter of Circe and Ares from when they both took human forms.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Feb 19th 2024 at 9:14:57 AM

That's pretty much any supporting Wonder Woman character that isn't Steve Trevor these days.

Lyta Milton can't currently exist in the Dawn of DC setting, but since The Kingdom, Convergence and Dark Crisis are all things, there's no reason they can't just bring back the original Lyta Milton 3 times just for the heck of it. Hell, Lyta got more panel time than Morgana, and hasn't been derailed to hell like that other Lyta who is probably going to be replaced with Trinity. There are certainly worse used character concepts than her!

Taco Wiz was fun too. I know some people didn't like it, and I understand why, but again, I don't take the DCU that seriously. I mean it's not the best look. Golden Age Wonder Woman was a scientific researcher, a nurse, a secretary, a librarian, a blacksmith, a detective and a non profit charity spokeswoman! Silver Age Wonder Woman was a tour guide, peace keeper, circus strong woman and mod boutique owner. Meanwhile fast food worker is apparently the best Post Crisis Wonder Woman can do? Wait, isn't she an official ambassador anyway? One who hosts UN Summits no less? Is Hippolyta/Philippus not paying her? Doesn't Wonder Woman have a corporate shill..."spokeswoman"? Is the current one Stealing from the Till? The Justice League suddenly not paying her raises more questions. I thought every member of the Justice League already had a day job of some sort. Well maybe not the tornado robot or the angel, but why is the princess part of the employee assistance program? If I took things more seriously I'd be angry too, but to me the jokes were all worth it. I personally prefer fast food Wonder Woman to modernist Wonder Woman.

Edited by IndirectActiveTransport on Feb 19th 2024 at 9:17:29 AM

She did get a salary from the JLA but was trapped in space for so long she was declared dead for a while, so her assets were frozen, and Themyscira seemingly disappeared so her family couldn't help.

The Taco Whiz story was made during the 90's recession so she learned firsthand how hard it can be for newcomers to find a job, something that's still true today—the hiring methods may have changed, but the experience is still the same.

My favorite thing about it was that she saw people from all walks of life and felt privileged to help them, and there was an interesting thing where she spent so long in another realm doing mystical stuff that she was late for the lunch rush and wanted to quit, feeling unworthy to work there.

Eventually she was declared alive again, helped her coworker with child support, and her salary issue was settled, but she's still friends with everyone she met there as far as I know, and superheroes sometimes stop by for lunch.

...Now I want fast food.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Feb 19th 2024 at 2:01:23 PM

New Wonder Woman issue, Giganta tried to slam the Washington Monument on top of Wonder Woman. Who proceeded to catch it and then throw it back at her.

Goddamn thats gotta hurt.

I don't know what King is thinking with making Vanessa have a crush on Diana.

Oh, I get it. It's just the kind of thing you'd think have come up by now, if you know Tom King was in anyway trying to portray Rebirth!Kapatelis as a consistently, logically developed character. We've had several in depth looks into her psyche already, her thoughts on Wonder Woman in particular. One would think that would be an import detail to include, which would lead one to think it was never the case to begin with!

Now his run isn't over yet. Tom King is a deep thinking writer and he's got time left to show us his developments completely make sense. But so far Tom King seems to have apathy for precedent. Themysciran amazons, Diana in particular, invoking Hera, for example. This "Rebirth" continuity has already established that Diana, with her powers diminished, her lasso stolen and given to Cheetah, who also has the god killer, has been powered up by "the void winds" on top of that and been "validated" on her murder mission by Fates from The Dark Matter Multiverse, Diana in this position would still rather fight this Cheetah than be within a light year of Hera, while Hera is explicitly on Diana's side! The Lazarus Planet tie ins saw Diana cursing herself for later trusting Hera, after Hera suckered Diana in with a (haughty)sob story, then tortured Diana with the "gift" of increased Super-Senses that forced Diana to see and hear the suffering of humanity as Hera's army of gods killed and enslaved them, to be vividly aware of the eradication of all life on Themyscira as Hera removed the wards protecting the island while removing all godly bestowed gifts the amazons had that Hera could remove, keeping the amazon patron goddess walled off by Hecate and Diana impotently bound in her own lasso! You'd think an impulsive Jerkass like Yara Flor would have an immediate response every time any amazon venerated Hera around her, considering that in addition to Yara acting as Diana's sidekick during the Lazarus Planet tie ins, Yara also knows that Hera had Yara's mother executed for getting impregnated by Yara's father, that Hera would like little more than to see Yara enslaved, tortured or killed, possibly all three at once and not in that particular order, for the crime of being born. Hera openly taunted Yara about it where Diana could hear and see! Cassie Sandsmark and Donna Troy have nothing to say either? They're the only reasons Yara escaped Olympus in the first place! Trinity's yet another jerkass, fine. Maybe Trinity thinks Hera's greatness is still worth praising, but when Diana says "By the mercy of Hera"? That one small part of one speech bubble could very well take two entire issues to explore!

The Amazons Attack volume 2 has Sergeant Steel, till then not a Wonder Woman villain, or even a villain, angry with Diana because of Amazons Attack volume 1? Why? Diana was out of action and not her mothers keeper besides and...better question, how? The Post Crisis Amazons Attack only happened because Granny Goodness convinced Circe that Ares had taken Lyta Milton away and Circe decided to take it out on Hippolyta instead of literally any other course of action Circe could have taken to try and get back to Lyta because Idiot Plot, but Lyta Milton doesn't exist in DC Rebirth! Ares was imprisoned for Diana's entire life until the conclusion of "The Truth" and "Godwatch" arcs, Circe knew it and wanted nothing to do with Ares, and Circe already had Diana's "trust" anyway. That means Aristotle Buchanan never gets possessed by Ares, Circe never becomes Donna Milton, they don't make a Lyta Milton for Granny Goodness to frame Ares for the kidnapping of and Circe doesn't brainwash Hippolyta in Misplaced Retribution. The Rebirth Timeline is not Post Crisis. Antiope lives a lot later. Aella dies a lot sooner. Artemis never trained Cassie Sandsmark, Nubia isn't banging Ahura Mazda, you can't just pull events from Post Crisis, or even New 52, without seriously reworking of them to fit, if you want things to make sense. If you are referencing Post Crisis stuff, how about that time Hera outright destroyed the island of Themyrscira? There's several reasons why DC Hera's name hasn't been venerated among DC amazons since the DC Silver Age! Mixing continuities just makes them stack!

One must remember Tom King is a deep thinking writer. He may very well reveal logical reasons behind all of his decisions by the end. But he's also a human being and we all make mistakes. I have my suspicions he made one just by deciding to revisit amazons attack, or if it wasn't actually his idea(DC had been referencing Amazons Attack incessantly since Grail resurfaced in the Rebirth continuity and Grail's out of prison for volume 2 proper. Maybe this doesn't actually start with Tom King), whoever else got the idea to revisit it might have made a mistake.

Have we discussed our feelings about Diana adopting a child?

Totally in character, and she's done it before.A sister rather than a daughter, but still. Infinite Frontier showed that Diana's relationship with Donna is an echo of Hippolyta's relationship with Diana. Realistically, Diana'd have to adopt at her age, if DC actually cared about biology. Grail, Jason, Yara and presumably Trinity show they don't, but I have no problem with Diana adopting in of itself.

Eh, Diana is Greek myth related. It coukd go really wild, so them deciding to have her get pregnant one day wouldn't be out of the question.

Hopefully not in the usual ways

Why not?

as in via rape

could go for a classy flower impregnation ala Hera or Virgin Mary