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Since Nazis are almost done to the death, mind if I twink this a little?

I'm imagining that these dwarves actively believing that the organic body is obscene, rather than just thinking that they are supreme because they are born to be (though close). Not because it is physically weaker than machinery, but simply because most cultures believe that the body is only modest when it is covered up. Hey, no one ever complains that a car is naked. Since it is something that needs to be covered up in order to be decent, it must be bad and needs to be replaced and destroyed. These dwarves are little more than brains in jars, using telepathy to control their mechanical "bodies" which they do not even live in. They also once spread a plague in order to force their citizens to adopt an entirely mechanical body (apart from the brain with which research is undergoing to use magic to transfer the conscious) or die as the disease cause their bodies to rot.

Obviously, Cloe and her worshippers hate these guys.

I'll write this up properly when I've got more time.

edited 2nd Jul '12 6:07:40 PM by IraTheSquire

Well, realize Dwarves have super powers, so don't go making that obsolete.

About that. Why is every Dwarf a superhero, exactly? I'd suggest clarification that most Gifts, especially in Dwarfs, aren't all that useful outside certain circumstances. Stuff like The Gift Of Really Voluminous Hair or The Gift Of Excellent Calligraphy would make up most of them.

They were cousins with the Elfs who both did genetic splicing back in the day.

Seems like the Anima got the short end, here.

Do we even really need them? I mean I understand we've put some good work into them but we've put far more work into Humans, Orcs and others things.

I'm not saying we can't have them but the thought of them not being in the setting has been bouncing in my head the past few days. They just seem like they've been an after-thought that's been there since the beginning but has always felt a bit forced into the setting because "fantasy has elves and dwarfs"

edited 2nd Jul '12 9:55:14 PM by Vyctorian

I don't see a strong reason to discard them when we can just leave them by the side until someone comes up with something compelling for them.

: Elves? Dwarfs? Both?

That too. However, the plan is to actually compile this material into a coherent setting guide. Anything without enough on it to warrant its own section won't make it.

Even so with every else being so developed in terms of the nations, world, mythology, they'd end up feeling forced in for the sake of confirming with the idea of what fantasy should be rather than being something more authentic to the setting.

No matter how compelling he back story or abilities at this point DS dwarfs and elves have under gone so much revision and changes it's hard to determine where they fit in the setting and how big of a role they've really had. They've been mentioned here and there but I've seen nothing of real substance or appeal has come from them in my eyes, as they've constantly been going through revision. To be honest the whole elf/dwarf thing has been hard to even keep up with at times.

It's not just those two races either, I've been getting the general feeling that I feel Domhain Sceal is a split campaign setting with some ideas fitting into one direction, and the other ideas contrasting that and going in another direction. Many of which are from the same contributor, I know in hindsight things I've submitted seem to be going in opposite directions from one another.

All these things could stay but they need some welding points and cut backs in some areas, the welds are easy, the cuts are another matter. And there is a big difference between cutting what doesn't work and cutting what someone doesn't like, and If I can I want to see if we can recycle the cut bits somewhere else.

edited 2nd Jul '12 10:21:23 PM by Vyctorian

Fair enough assessment. Mind you, some diversity is intentional. And yes, feel free to wield the welding torch. Arc Welding can make some things that are more memorable than the component parts.

Well, I've had the idea of "cyborgs with a terrible body image" for a long time now, and I just thought that a bunch of dwarves with a superiority complex and "superpowers" like the Gift of Artifice will be fitting.

Actually, that gives me an idea... (I'm not a gifted writer so please bear with me)

Ok, obviously still need a lot of work, but the idea is there.

edited 2nd Jul '12 11:25:00 PM by IraTheSquire

Hrm, yes, I could see that. It would simply mean though, my thing could bear renaming rather than total replacement. The two could bear historical relation but are different enough not to be the same thing.

Now, you want something done doing with Duegar, Sylvan, Elfs and Dwarfs? Well, okay, I got a couple ideas:

• The spread of Vijaijan philosophy of emotional attachment, especially in other Sylvan cultures but also other races. A look into how Vijanism is clashing or melding with foreign cultures.
• This can also dip into a with the Chaukuku's ancient culture and its "wild west" dynamic has translated to modern times, how underground drow banditos have turned into surface-dwelling dark elven gangsters.
• An entry will look in on how the Sylvan's closeness to the Aether actually adversely effects their minds, some indepth look into how knowing the exact date of your death can effect a being, and how highly magic plus genetically prone to mental instability has effect Sylvan cultures in a multiracial world and the more interesting characters it has made.
• A look into the Gnome-Elf-Gnome dynamic, retooling it into a debilitating epidemic in the Sylvan race. That is, normally, Sylvan deadlines to stop aging is normally at 30, where they grow to their maximum height and rarely will they go beyond and start shrinking. It actually a rare and much feared infliction becoming depressingly more common.
• A closer look at the Dwornal the Unnatural, God of Machines, his relationship with Elena and the part he played in the creation of the Dwarfs and part he played in their distasteful eugenic attempts of some of the their earliest cultures to weed out weaker Gifts which then actually lead to a rebellious turn around that lead to the explosion of the Gifts found all over the world.
• An expansion and exploration of the Machine Empire (name pending) as an antagonistic force in the world with a bunch of super powered super soldiers rising up to make war on the surface.
• I come up with some reason why Elfs didn't get the short end of the stick compared to Dwarfs.
• A list of the diverse "monstrous" races that call themselves Elves, their startlingly different physical attributes and the effects they have on the world around them.
• A look into how the the presence of a large Duegar population will shape your local geography and what's been down so far.

I just made physical attributes and pumped out some sample cultures. To be honest, I honestly tried avoid writing in some "Oh, and this the big affect this race had on the world and the reason they exist".

edited 3rd Jul '12 12:17:43 AM by God_of_Awesome

To be fair, having races that does not have much of an impact in the world makes it rather difficult to tie it all up altogether.

I think another way of doing it would be to have the races interact with ach other: how they think of each other and how they stereotype each other etc (much like how the different groups in World Of Darkness have an entire page of "stereotypes"),

edited 3rd Jul '12 12:56:39 AM by IraTheSquire

Problem. Outside of orcs, nations that are mostly one race are almost unheard of. Stereotypes would exist but they'd likely be culturally based.

edited 3rd Jul '12 1:13:15 AM by Vyctorian

Exactly, and now stereotypes would also reflect their culture. Two Birds With One Stone

edited 3rd Jul '12 1:34:34 AM by IraTheSquire

A skewered view of them through the cultures could work.

edited 3rd Jul '12 1:37:03 AM by Vyctorian

I still hold that the Gnome-Elf-Gnome thing can be tweaked. Actually, yes, I'll write a counter proposal as soon as I'm lucid tomorrow.

I also like Ira's idea for the Machine Empore, with the caveat that the war lasted much much less than a thousand years.

edited 3rd Jul '12 9:02:19 AM by Exelixi

I was trying to tweak it: The turning into back into a Gnome thing isn't seen as normal but actually rather debilitating.

Maybe Elfs and Gnomes were once the same creature, but they split but both have a chance of regressing back to some hybrid form?

Eeeeh, well, 'Gnome' is just the word used when a Sylvan stops aging as a child and 'Elf' for a Sylvan that stops aging as an adult.

Now mind you, it'd be interesting to take a look at particular 'nationalities' of Sylvan that favor to nearly 100% one or the other.

edited 3rd Jul '12 10:57:38 AM by God_of_Awesome

Go ahead and do that. Though I'm pretty sure you mean ethnicities.

I think Sylvan is an ethnicity. Although... it could be?

How do we define this?

An ethnicity is like the difference between me and Sijo. (I'm Irish, he's Latin) Same sort of thing (homo sapiens sapiens), a few slight variations on physical characteristics (for example, skin tone and hair).

What fantasy calls a race Is roughly analogous to species, IE the difference between a bear and a panther.

"Ethnicity" have more ties to a culture/background and to a nation, while nationality is always about a nation.

For example, somebody can be an American (nationality) but ethnically Asian.

Except different species normally can't interbreed. The general 'species' of most beings is 'Humanoid' with maybe as much as a difference between most as their is between different breeds of dogs while going so far, such as the case with Orcs and others as between Tigers and Lions or Horses and Donkeys.