Gender divisions in teaching

So, men wear skinny jeans and pierce their nipples not because it gets them pussy, but because they haven't had good role models?

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

...what are the sociological parameters for a "lost geeration of males," Erock?

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The reports of our loss are greatly exaggerated.

---

As to the OP, so far it's pretty much conformed to the pattern: all female teachers in elementary school, a few men in middle school, about 50/50 in high school (I haven't been in college long enough to get a representative sample).

One thing I did notice about my high school was that AP classes were much more likely than other classes to be taught by a man. Out of the 8 I took, only ONE was my teacher a woman. Pity it was that particular woman too.

I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1

Men doing worse in university + the system in America screwing the young over + slacker culture.

@kash: ...no?

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.

Erock, that's just apathy born of bleakness.

A hopelessly decaying system will do that to a generation, in terms of snapping idealism like a twig. I doubt it's because of any lack of male role models or some such.

USAF713 on his phone or iPod.

@Erock: That's BS; men of this generation are not doing any worse than men of any previous generation.

Now, they might be doing worse relative to women, but that's because women have never done so well. It's got nothing to do with the men.

I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1

I think it's more like, everyone is doing lousy and feeling like giving up lately, and the only reason it seems more prominent/worse in men is because men have always been pressured to be the go-getters and breadwinners and achievers.

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I'm tempted to say "but everyone isn't doing lousy", but I think I might be being naive there.

I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1

There will always be some people doing lousy, but that's the way of the world.

Though what I've read jives with your previous stat; men's results in university are basically on par with those in the past, it's just that women have over-taken them in terms of success.

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@Black: Then how come women are now graduating university more then men? Ther will be some jobs in the future, but successful women will take them.

If they "are just doing as good as they used to" then guess what? They have to do better now.

@USAF: Yes, it is born of bleaknesss, but at least women are motivated to succeed.

edited 8th Nov '11 4:58:32 AM by Erock

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.

There is no need to worry about the status of men. They still dominate in the subjects that matter anyway. (Maths, Science, Engineering)

^^ Which part of a statistic of men's achievements relative to women's do not say anything about the change in men's achievements are you unclear on?

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

Isn't that because they're now enrolling more women than men?

I find that interesting, because most of the AP classes in my high school (everything except Physics, IIRC) were taught by women.

Because music, arts, language, history - none of those are important, amirite?

Going off of what Barkey said ... my first grade teacher was a complete and utter bitch. Most of my teachers up until high school ranked firmly in the "meh" category. The orchestra teacher I had freshman year was ... "nuts" is being polite. My chem teacher in high school was completely fucking awesome (and he was a former Army demolitions guy), and I already mentioned the cool gamer teacher I had in comp sci and the sucktacular English teacher. Looking back at all the ones I remember, the awesome/suckitude ratio had very little to do with gender.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

x5 More women going to college than men translates pretty straightforwardly to more women graduating from college than men. It's hardly a matter of "putting the man down".

More on topic, I had zero male teachers in elementary; band, orchestra, social studies, chemistry, and shop were taught by men in middle school, and men probably still only made up for 30% of the faculty at my high school - mostly in history, hard sciences, and music. And both art teachers.

edited 8th Nov '11 10:38:37 AM by Bur

i. hear. a. sound.

statistic of men's achievements relative to women's do not say anything about the change in men's achievements

I'm talking about the men graduating now. W ehaven't seen their achievemnts yet.

Isn't that because they're now enrolling more women than men?

I haven't heard that, but if it is true then it's a problem itself - are men being turned down (discirmination) or are they not applying (a fault in the education system)?

They still dominate in the subjects that matter anyway. (Maths, Science, Engineering)

For how long? That's now, I'm talking about the future.

Another thing I have to say it's mostly 3rd generation kids that seem to be underperforming. From my (fairly large) experience, work ethic and habits are much better promoted in 1st gen and 2nd gen families.

edited 8th Nov '11 1:28:24 PM by Erock

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.

Most of those aren't as career-relevant, so yeah.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

Not necessarily. Socialized cynicism isn't limited by gender.

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@USAF: I meant women are at least being encouraged. Men aren't really, and with the general pessmissim of the time... Blixty summed it up well when he talked about his county.

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.

In terms of teaching and schools, that isn't actually true; with the exception of some programs targetted to get more girls engaged in Computing and the hard sciences, there is vastly more effort in trying to increase the engagement of boys and raise success rates, to the point that female success is often ignored.

Outside schooling may be different, but since the focus on this thread is about teaching specifically...

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Hm, my experience can be divvied up several ways.

Early on in elementary level classes, women were dominant all around, except for gym. Toward middles school, I started seeing an evening out. In HS, I had about even, except for english (female entirely) and science (male dominant, however, I went toward the hard sciences), however this might have to do with the sports coach requirement*

. I'm sure if I tried to remember, I could give an actual break down.

In college, this changed. My classes were fairly even early when I took my general course, but switched to male dominant (approx 2:1 in favor of males) toward the end.

I've noticed that the majority of females in the math and sciences tend to be some variant of Asian (both east and south) while white and black women gravitate toward the social studies and lesser subjects such as language arts and art. My spanish teachers were mostly Latino (or whatever the appropriate term is), as they were native speakers for the most part.

Fight smart, not fair.

Math and science were split for me, with it working out to about equal between middle and high school. Most of my art teachers were male. Music, History/Social Studies, and English were also pretty split. Gym was a 2/3 male thing.

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

with the exception of some programs targetted to get more girls engaged in Computing and the hard sciences, there is vastly more effort in trying to increase the engagement of boys and raise success rates, to the point that female success is often ignored.

Citation needed.

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.

I can email you the Literary review I wrote on it, if you like. Or a list of the references cited.

But to list some of my references:

- Charlton, E., Mills, M., Martino, W., and Beckett, L. (2007). “Sacrificial girls: a case study of the impact of streaming and setting on gender reform”, British Educational Research Journal, 33 (4), p. 459-478.

- Clark, M. (1989). The Great Divide: Gender in the primary school. Curriculum Corporation, Brunswick.

- Hartman, P. (2006). "’Loud on the Inside’: Working-Class Girls, Gender, and Literacy”, Research in the Teaching of English, 41 (1), p. 82-117.

- Hiller, C., and Johnson, K. (2007). “Against the grain: constructions of gender through teacher talk”, English in Australia, 42 (3), p. 74-82.

- Myhill, D. (2002). “Bad Boys and Good Girls? Patterns of Interaction and Response in Whole Class Teaching”, British Educational Research Journal, 28 (3), p. 339-352.

I've got another 21 references I could give you if you are interested.

edited 9th Nov '11 7:22:55 AM by Drakyndra

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...Can you provide actual links for those sources, or are you expecting people to go to the library? I'm also noting that your sources span at least two different first world countries; exactly how widespread are you arguing this issue to be, given how significantly cultural differences impact gender behavior and perceptions?

Edit: I don't find your statement totally unbelievable, to clarify, so much as I find it suspiciously lacking in nuance. My limited personal experience would also lead to suggest the opposite, but then, when your career interests are novelist, librarian and veterinarian, you really kind of set yourself up for that one.

edited 9th Nov '11 8:35:18 AM by Karkadinn

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.