And Man Grew Proud seems more like Soiled City On A Hill: And Man Grew Proud

I don't know what you think, guys, but the name "And Man Grew Proud" makes me think of the Soiled City on a Hill. When I first encountered it, it was of the later trope than I thought. Soiled City on a Hill refers to a place full of arrogance and corruption and fell because of it - and that's where the word "proud" fits. Anyway, where does the name "And Man Grew Proud" come? I've seacrhed in the page and I've nothing that suggests the name.

Seriously, my avatar comes from the embodiment of the So Bad, It's Good trope.

"And man grew proud" is a Stock Phrase that usually indicates the society in question was smote for their arrogance(think Tower of Babel). Definitely nothing to do with the trope under discussion, though.

Yeah, unwritten rule number one: follow all the unwritten procedures. - Camacan

...Wow. I had seen the page before, and I thought your definitions were what this was. Unless the Planet of the Apes Ending aspect is definitive of the trope, this is a terrible name.

It is a pretty nonindicative name, but I don't see misuse. All the examples seem to cleave pretty closely to that description.

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

In one trope, pride leads to arrogance and a challenge to the gods.

In the other trope, pride leads to sloth and corruption.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

They often overlap, but they aren't the same.

edited 6th Nov '11 11:16:38 PM by Ramidel

I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.

And neither tropes are the one described on the page And Man Grew Proud, that page is more History Survived As Myth or something.

The first one is technically the myth of the culture, reason given is that the apocalypse was caused by challenging the gods of whoever is revered in the new time period. The second one is soiled city, instead of doing something specific that causes the apocalypse, it's general decadence that is responsible for the collapse.

I was highlighting the similarity of pride. You've done a good job of pointing out why the overlap is not sufficient to merge.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

The lack of misuse is invalid here. A trope's name should match a trope's description. If there has not been misuse yet you are lucky, none the less, the name is still wrong. Suppose I wanted to talk about the tower of babble, a story that actually involved men growing proud...or even Clash Of The Titans? Seeing that trope is not the one I was looking for I might go to You Know The Thing Where but why? This name is clearly meant for something else.

edit:The use on Soiled City On A Hill is misuse already.

edited 5th Dec '11 6:25:51 PM by Cider

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack

It might be worth noting that And Man Grew Proud is at least a year older than Soiled City on a Hill so the latter trope was made while the former was already in existence.

In any event, I think And Man Grew Proud's name has two strikes against it already. First, I feel like the name does not actually describe the trope very well since the apocalyptic event need not be caused by human pride. Second, the use of a stock phrase, especially in a way detached from its traditional meaning counts against the name in my view.

edited 12th Dec '11 12:00:37 PM by LouieW

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d

Well, from the name alone I thought "humanity proud of its successors" would be the trope. Either my thoughts are on a completely different track than whoever named this trope, or there's something wrong with the name.

Accidental mistakes are forgivable, intentional ones are not.

Is this thread still active? If not, can it be closed so I can start a new conversation?

"But... nobody told me I needed a signature!"

Uh why? It looks like people forgot but no one has protested that action needs to be taken. Let's finish this one off before opening a new discussion.

Anyone opposed to a crowner? Do we even need one, can we just call a mod since the name is obviously wrong?

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack

If we're going to change the name, we should try to think of some I guess.

the problem isn't just that we need a rename, the problem is that someone accidentally put the description for And Man Grew Proud under Soiled City on a Hill (seriously, who the heck came up with that name?) We need to switch the names then come up with a new name for "Apocalypse relegated to myth"

edited 14th Feb '12 10:52:12 PM by Blissey1

XP granted for befriending a giant magical spider!

put the description for And Man Grew Pround under Soiled City On A Hill

You got that backwards, right?

I don't think so. Every time I've ever heard the phrase "And Man Grew Proud", it's been immediately followed by man being smitten by some supernatural/divine force. Which is currently the description for Soiled City on a Hill.

Something else odd, the description for Soiled City on a Hill even potholes And Man Grew Proud with hubris-laden, even though the current description of And Man Grew Proud has nothing to do with hubris.

Something went terribly wrong with these two tropes at some point.

XP granted for befriending a giant magical spider!

Right, so you meant "put the description for Soiled City On A Hill onto And Man Grew Proud" Maybe I just can't figure out the way you were phrasing it. But I agree with everything you're saying, so it doesn't matter.

edited 14th Feb '12 11:26:20 PM by abk0100

So options. Rename And Man Grew Proud, Switch the descriptions of And Man Grew Proud and Soiled City On A Hill. Possibly rename Soiled City On A Hill afterward. Am I missing any?

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack

1. 5 #6 a good point.

...And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense - R.W.Wood

No, what he means is that someone put the description for what should be And Man Grew Proud on Soiled City on a Hill. Make more sense now?

Bumping and clocking.

I didn't write any of that.

Locking due to inactivity.

I didn't write any of that.