Princess Ymir's knightess
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I'd actually like to see you rant.
It's inevitable, Mr. Inhopelessguy. Why fight?
On topic: Well, referendum is good way to see peoples opinion. Just remind them that they lose all those nice EU benefits they have been enjoying.
edited 24th Oct '11 4:30:46 AM by Mandemo
Yeah, I get that the public are a little angsty at the EU. They don't actually realise how much the EU does for us. Half our cities have been redeveloped using EU funds - I see signs around Birmingham saying "in partnership with the EU".
We really need to be in partnership with them. We're just a little island with nothing. With the EU, we're a voice, outside it, we'll get drowned out by the huge thing on our doorstep.
If we say "fuck you, EU", we're closing a lot of doors.
Decemberist
I think this is entirely the wrong time for us to be voting on Europe. I think we should wait till the Eurozone isn't about 5 minutes away from doom before deciding on shit like this. We need to be at the centre, deciding shit and not on the outside looking in.
Dutch Lesbian
F-22 1986 Concept
Exactly. If anything, this is the time for greater integration.
Anyway, if it passes, it's only a referendum. The government can block the results of it, if it so wishes. Its not a constitutional right to follow the results.
edited 24th Oct '11 4:44:47 AM by Inhopelessguy
Sneering Imperialist
Indeed. It's time all the Euroskeptics and UKIP sympathisers got that through their thick skulls.
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
To think, the EU (as a combined whole, including non-euro nations) is the world's second (or first) biggest economy by GDP and PPP.
Leaving it would cause structural damage to our economy, and our infrastructure, as I've stated by the fact that urban renewal is a primarily EU initiative.
Well, it's kidna useless to try to argue with them. The just go "DERP EU TAKES AWAY OUR FREEDOM DERP" or "DERP EU TAKES AWAY OUR INDEPENDENCE DERP" or, my favorite, "DERP EU IS JEW CONSPIRACY TO KILL EUROPEANS AND REPOPULATE EU WITH MUSLIMS DERP".
Public Servant
An unfortunate development. Hopefully, if there is a referendum, the British citizenry will use their common sense and wisdom to not fall for the doomsayer's anti-EU nonsense.
"It is true that we are called a democracy, for the administration is in the hands of the many and not of the few."
Well to play devil's advocate, the EU is not looking so attractive right now. Between the PIIGS and the debt crisis sweeping the Eurozone, the continually poor economy worldwide, and the perceivable indecisiveness of the Eurozone to deal with any of that yeah you can understand why there is serious opposition to the EU in the UK.
...But Britain isn't actually part of Europe.
Decemberist
But there really isn't any opposition to the EU or UKIP would have at least 327 M Ps.
Dutch Lesbian
Not this again...
@Tom
Anyway, of course EU doesn't look attractive right now, but if every nation left every organisation minute it looked bad, even after years of prosperity, how could we ever have anything? What if nations left UN as soon as they decided something they didn't want. EU needs these kidn of things. Why? to strengthen itself. To find out weak spots in their structure. IF evertyhing was all nice and dandy all the time, we could never find the problems such as Greece cooking the books or PIIGS troubles.
Public Servant
I really don't see the need in calling them the "PIIGS" countries. It's a little insulting to be honest.
"It is true that we are called a democracy, for the administration is in the hands of the many and not of the few."
I can't access BBC from here. What is this one referendum about?
"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Public Servant
The Conservatives, Liberal Democrats and Labour will all ask their M Ps to oppose the move at a debate on Monday.
A Tory MP is calling on his colleagues to back an amendment which would delay a referendum until the UK had renegotiated its position in the EU.
The idea is being seen as an attempt to head off a rebellion by up to 60 M Ps.
The government would not be bound by the result of the vote, based on a motion by Tory MP David Nuttall, but it could prove politically tricky for the Conservative leadership.
'Country first'
Conservative M Ps are expected to face a three-line whip - not yet confirmed - which would require any in government jobs to follow the party line and vote against the motion or to resign their posts.
One MP, Stewart Jackson, has already said he intends to vote for the motion even if it costs him his job as a parliamentary private secretary, saying: "Some things are more important than party preferment."
Mr Nuttall's motion calls for a referendum by May 2013 and says the public should have three options put to them in the nationwide vote - keeping the status quo, leaving the EU or reforming the terms of the UK's membership of the European Union.
David Cameron has argued he shares M Ps' frustrations with the costs and bureaucracy involved in EU membership, but would oppose calls for a vote on whether to quit, saying it "is not our policy".
In response to a question from Tory backbencher Mark Pritchard on Wednesday, the PM said "the right answer is not to hold a referendum willy-nilly in this Parliament when we have so much to do to get Europe to sort its problems out."
Compromise suggested
Mr Pritchard told BBC Radio 4's Today programme he was willing to defy a three-line whip if necessary.
"This is about country first, party second and career last," he said.
He added: "This is not about necessarily the terms of a particular bill... or a future referendum, it's fundamentally about freedom, it's about democracy and it's about the legitimacy of the European project."
Graham Brady, chairman of the 1922 committee of Conservative M Ps, said, in an article in the Daily Telegraph, that "this is a backbench debate and there is no need for ministers to participate".
"What matters is that backbench M Ps of all parties should be free to vote in accordance with our beliefs and in the interests of our constituents," he added.
In what is seen as an attempt to broker a compromise, Tory MP George Eustice has tabled an amendment urging the government to reconfigure its relationship with the EU - returning certain powers to Westminster - before putting the issue to the public.
Mr Eustice, David Cameron's former press secretary, said the initiative was "not yet" backed by the government but he urged M Ps of all parties to support it and suggested it "more closely reflected the views" of most Conservative M Ps compared to Mr Nuttall's motion.
"The advantage of having a referendum after the renegotiation rather than before is that the public would then be able to judge whether or not the government had succeeded and this would put pressure on the government to negotiate forcefully," he said.
edited 24th Oct '11 6:31:50 AM by germi91
"It is true that we are called a democracy, for the administration is in the hands of the many and not of the few."
I don't understand UK's insistance that they must have special place in EU or they will not be part of it.
Well, I'm not really surprised. The UK were never "that much" into EU.
"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
F-22 1986 Concept
I must say, This Is Gonna Suck.
USAF713 on his phone or iPod.
The day that Britain leaves the EU will be a tragedy. We need to remain in the boat as oppose to jumping into our own rubber dingy. We British may claim to “regaining our freedom by leaving the European Union” but the EU has actually helped maintain our liberty via the European Courts of Human Rights and has allowed us to join our voices with our fellow European comrades. Leaving the EU will not save us from this economic crisis! We must work with our fellow Europeans to set our economy back on track. We are only going to have a real chance if we are still able to be in the same room as our fellow Europeans in the time of discussing economics plans, not by denying ourselves the ability to take part in the debate... or try to process “crown me or be gone” attitude, as with might have caused Sarkozy’s recent annoyance that Cameron.
I’m a lumberjack and I’m ok. I sleep all night and work all day.
So that's what this does
This is going to get a lot of support from people who are angry about being railroaded into the Lisbon treaty.
F-22 1986 Concept
Well, on the one hand, European integration and European supranational is uncomfortably dangerous to me, as an American. On the other hand, it is better for the UK to stay united and stay in the EU.
Hm.
USAF713 on his phone or iPod.
Exactly What It Says on the Tin. David Cameron is likely to suffer the greatest "Backbench" (non-Minister MPs) Rebellion, despite all the Major Parties being against the motion and Whips being placed on all MPs to vote against the Motion, as explained here
.
Analysis from The BBC:
Interestingly, this is one the Bills that was introduced as a result of a Petition, in which over 100,000
people signed.
edited 24th Oct '11 4:28:36 AM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On