Violent confrontation at Mcdonald's

Unless someone is willing to spring to have every single in the country trained in how to control yourself when attacked and how to stop in each part, it's unreasonable to expect a random joe to know when to stop hitting someone when they're on an adrenaline high and in the thick of it. Well, unless you see brains oozing out. He managed to stop himself while they were on the ground, and only hit them on the ground if they tried to get up, so his self control is, if anything, commendable.

Exactly. When your sugar turns to crap, you will not rise to the occasion. You will fall - fall to the highest level of training you have received. There are on occasion, exceptions to this, but they are exceptions.

He fell - how many people train for instances like this? Not many. A police officer would have known how to react, as they are trained. If you have no training, you likely will resort to classic fight/flight/freeze responses.

Add in the the fact that in normal situation, if flight raction fails the fight reaction becomes even more extreme. Which is what happened here. He tried to leave, heading to the kitchen. Women pursued him and thus the fight reaction got more extreme that it would have normally gotten.

I also can't understand how anyone can defend these women. I mean, the guy just wanted to check is the 50$ bill was real and can he accept it. I fail to connect how that can anyway justify attacking and pursuing guy who was just doing his job.

It really was counterfeit?

Dunno. But sounds legit pratice to me. Local shops here check everything above 20€, even if it comes from the president. It's not really that big thing, just put themk trough machine and it shows whenever it's legit or not. Smaller shops generally don't accept anything above 20€, unless you bought so much that you really need to pay with such big money. This is mainly because such shops and restaurants generally don't really have much cash in their register.

edited 25th Oct '11 2:11:05 AM by Mandemo

Oh, pathetic, Pa! Fucking pathetic!

Talk about passive-aggressive projection!

edited 25th Oct '11 2:37:17 AM by MRDA1981

He crossed the line when he hit her some more while she was laying on the floor. Or was she still a threat after two hits with a metal pole? That she started all this by slapping him and following him behind the counter is an important factor too of course... but he went too far in my opinion...

And did anybody at least smile at my reference? Bring da ambalamps anyone? Epic Beard Man anyone?

I have no problem, whatsoever, with what he did.

We do not know what happened behind the counter, we don't see it. She might be trying to get up, or threathen him or so worth. Way I see it, he doesn't seem to hit just for the sake of hitting, but seems more like he hits them since they refuse to stay down.

As far as I could see, they were trying to get back up.... The dude had no way whatsoever to know if they were gonna stab him or something. People who jump over counters to assault you are typically armed.

Sure it looks vicious, but self-defense ain't supposed to be pretty either.

edited 25th Oct '11 3:22:42 AM by SavageHeathen

I don't think you can really get a particularly clear idea of what happened from that video. I had to watch it three times before I even realised the woman hit him first. And because the video is so unclear, I don't think anyone in this thread can make a fair judgement on what happened.

Good thing he stopped them before they took the fight even further into the kitchen. You do not want to fight in a room with hot stoves, ovens, sharp objects and sizzling hot oil around.

I think the victim is unambiguously the guy. He's the one who's lost his job, he's the one facing criminal charges because someone else's idiocy, and he's the one whose manager didn't lift a finger to defend though being perfectly willing to discipline him later on.

edited 25th Oct '11 10:26:26 AM by kashchei

Continuing to hit them while they were on the floor could still be a justified reaction. What would they have done if they'd been able to get up? He managed to gain the advantage, and he made sure he kept it. I somehow doubt someone who would jump over a counter to attack someone would react to the person fighting back with anything over than attacking them some more. I don't blame the man for not wanting to risk them getting back up.

^^ So, remember kids, if you're being attacked and no one helps you out, just lay there and take it, no matter how much it hurts. It is the morally superior choice to suffer possible grave injury than to take such drastic and draconian measures like "defending yourself".

If they had got up, he could have been stabbed or something. His reaction might look harsh, but a dude who's been ten years in the slammer make you fully aware of the possibility of being shanked.

SOP for self-defense is knock'em down, keep'em the fuck down.

The only thing the guy must say to get acquitted from excessive force is "She reached for something, I dunno what, but I thought it was a knife. So I didn't let'er get up"

edited 25th Oct '11 10:49:46 AM by SavageHeathen

I still can't believe he is getting charged with assault and criminal possession of a weapon, but these bitches are getting away with menacing, trespassing, and disorderly conduct.

^^ I'd argue tht the SOP reads more like "Eliminate the threat".

Whole lot of ways to do that. Avoid trouble. Defuse the situation. Run for help. Fight back.

^ Picking up a metal rod counts as illegal posession? Guess I should throw away half my tools, then.

edited 25th Oct '11 10:54:19 AM by pvtnum11

Nothing like a bit of Christian residue to distort people's thinking: turn the other cheek and let them fuck you up the arse.

There's a disturbing, but not altogether surprising, trend that I've noticed: folk saying and doing nothing when someone attacks someone, then getting self-righteous, hectoring, prescriptive, and even violent when the victim has the nerve to fight back. The "how can she slap" vid is another example of this phenomenon.

There's a nasty, bully-enabling, entitlement mentality amongst the tut-tutters and moralists, masqueraded in the language of "compassion" and "proportion".

edited 25th Oct '11 10:57:20 AM by MRDA1981

Run for help? There were plenty of people around who weren't helping, so I dare say that option seemed pretty closed to him.

So does the father of the girl ever go to McDonald's again after this? And does he pay in $50's?

This is status quo after all. I would actually be surprised by this news if the chicks in question go a hell of a lot more than they did. Nope! The tits win again!

For their next trick, they'll go to a bar, attempt to get free drinks, and when the bartender or any of the patrons within don't pony up, the bar and its owner will be accused of sexism.

Personal opinion? Hitting her while she was down was unreasonable. She was no longer a threat. It's just that most folks aren't very good at reason when they're still running off adrenaline after being assaulted. I'm willing to chalk that one up as an unfortunate consequence of the famously glitchy system that is human biochemistry.

You know, with all the bro-ha-ha that's surrounding the zombie apocalypse, he probably thought it finally started with these two chicks.

"Alright, let me just check this $50. One moment..."

"braaaainnssss...."

"NOT TODAY!"

*Zombies are down*

"Hail to the king, baby."

"STOOOOPP!"

edited 25th Oct '11 11:32:46 AM by Newfable

But was he being unreasonable? As long as they could still stand up and attack him again - probably more violently than before, since they'd probably be enraged that he'd dared to fight back - they were still a potential threat. The only way to stop them becoming a threat again was to keep them on the ground, which he did.

edited 25th Oct '11 11:48:50 AM by ArlaGrey

Iaculus: Yeah, that's fair to say. In the heat of the moment, it's all-too-easy to overdo it. Then, when you've calmed down, and have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight and proper rational thinking, you sit back and go "oh, whoops."

Unless you're trained. Then you don't really leave rational thought when the situation goes south. There's a reason why cops and firefighters go to training prior to reporting for duty, and why they continue to train while on the job.

Case in point: I'm trained in emergency response as it pertains to my job. If I hear that a medical emergency is called away, or if we have a fire, or a hazardous chemical spill, my immediate reaction is to move quickly to the scene and be prepared to render assitance, and even remind the guy who steps up to take control of the situation to make sure he hits all the wickets. That's been beaten into my head for over a decade via drills and actual for-real casualties, so that whenever I see or hear about a Bad Thing going down, I gravitate to it on muscle memory - I don't even have to think about doing it.

But I have the luxury of having been provided that training for that type of thing. Probably not applicable to violent altercations.