Japanese Developers aren't given enough respect, says Keiji Inafune

I have to agree with this, I'm afraid.

It is true, but he assumes the gap is far wider than it really is.

Right off the bat he talks about the western idea of "Fun" being different from the Japanese idea. Yet many Japanese franchises are internationally popular, and a lot of American franchises are popular in Japan. And we both love Baseball, after all.

Next he claims that Japanese gamers love bright and cartoonish visuals because manga is homogenous and western cartoons and comics are more varied. I've seen way too many anime-vs-cartoons arguments that discuss this point to death so I'll just point out that if his logic stood up, then Americans too would prefer bright and cartoonish visuals because most of us are raised on cartoons too, and are surrounded by animation icons wherever we go.

In answer to the question about video game music, Inafune says western composers are more influenced by film. For the Japanese side, all he says is that they had to learn how to compose music on console hardware. There are three inherent assumptions you have to make to begin buying this argument at all: First, that because Japanese composers learned how to make chiptunes, that defined their philosophy. Second, that western composers somehow skipped the "learning to make music on hardware" stage and thus developed a different philosophy. Third, that Japanese composers never ever take influences from film. Again, if you don't make these assumptions, then Inafune's argument just doesn't make sense. But all three assumptions are provably false, so his argument is a load of baloney anyway.

Again, I could go on, but just about everything Inafune says is backed by a sort of confirmation bias that gives him rise to some rather suspect outlooks on the differences between Japanese and American culture. I, a gamer who grew up with both Japanese and American games, spotted a lot of these errors the very first time I read the article, they just stand out that much. Which is one reason I want to believe this is something HG 101 made up, rather than actual words from Inafune himself. I could imagine a website of over-opinionated gaming geeks being this ignorant, but its saddening seeing it from a successful high-profile game designer who by all rights should know better.

Is it not? There is a fundamental truth in that "fun" is not a universal thing that is internationally defined. As a European, I can safely say that there are many things that are considered "fun" in American media which falls completely flat for average European audiences. Humour, what is considered a pleasant time and what is thought to be appropriate behaviour all changes in myriads of ways between cultures, and it is absolutely correct how he says that to make games for other markets than the home market, you must extend the possibilities of fun.

Certain series aside, are those not franchises that started out with an ambition to be launched and appreciated on an international basis? Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy...are they essentially "Japanese", or are they in truth made with an overseas audience in mind?

And Europeans do not care for Baseball, preferring much more a game that Americans to this day refuse to call by its rightly name, just to point out an example of "fun" not being an international constant.

I agree that his statements do not in any way help to explain why it seems that most Americans prefer realistic design before bright visuals, and I have no idea why he's saying that.

That is not a very long mental leap to make, honestly. That Japanese composers would listen to the music of, get inspired by and learn from earlier Japanese composers is not just a hypothesis, but a given. And so, Nobuo Uematsu's melodic scores are closer to Koichi Sugiyama's than they are to Western film composers.

The difference that Inafune is speaking about is not about the methods used, but about the concept behind the music. It's not about the music is made, but how it is used. Let us take Final Fantasy VII and Elder Scrolls: Morrowind as an example (because I've played both and both soundtracks get a lot of praise). Final Fantasy uses melodic overworld music to indicate a chance of scenery and provide a specific theme for the specific area. This is an old tradition that has followed JRP Gs for a long time. Meanwhile, Morrowind concentrates on more ambient feeling with orchestrations that concentrate much more on intensifying the ambience of the surroundings and the game itself. This is very similar to how music is used in movies.

No. Nothing that Inafune states in that interview says anything that assumes that Japanese composers are not also influenced by films. Many video game scores for Japanese games that come out these days are influenced by larger movie-composers. But that does not mean that they are not at the same time continuing the same tradition of how to use the music.

Please, do go on. I am willing to take this whole discussion, if only to state what I think he's really saying in the hopes that you will come to understand that what he says does not mean what you may think it means.

I'll grant you that, but what differences exist are either minimal, or else are not in areas that Inafune is focusing on.

I have no idea about Mario, but I can tell you for a fact that Final Fantasy and Zelda were not. Just look into the story of how Final Fantasy got its name, or the fact that Zelda was originally an exclusive for the Famicom Disk System (never released outside of Japan), or that both took roughly two years to leave their native country, for all the verification you need.

The truth is though, the entire entertainment industry is rather a crapshoot, and no matter how much tailoring you do you can never predict what audiences will like. I'm sure Gunpei Yokoi never thought Metroid would be more popular in America than in Japan (it, too, started as an FDS exclusive). Likewise, Andrew Greenburg and Robert Woodhead probably never imagined that Wizardry would jumpstart Japan's RPG industry. All this modern stuff you hear about tailoring to audiences and whatnot... its nonsense, its bullcrap. Nothing in history or science bears it out. It is something they believe despite a lack of evidence. A religion, a corporate-world superstition.

It's also getting far afield of the topic so let's move on.

That's not what it sounds like Inafune is saying though. He specifically states that Western composers "have more of a background in film" and makes an argument that this influences them artistically. And he doesn't just say "Western" film, he says "film," period. If he's allowing for the possibility that Japanese composers can also take influence from film despite being chiptune composers, then his argument makes no sense, so he has to be saying that to be saying anything.

So far you have mentioned Halo, Morrowind and Fallout. These are all rather recent games, and the trend of making games more cinemaesque is a rather recent development. The trend of a certain piece of music designed to play throughout a certain area or level is as much a western tradition as it is a Japanese one, and you can see examples of it as far back as the Commodore 64 or as recently as Quake or Duke Nukem 3D or Starcraft or Warcraft II or Aero the Acrobat or Mortal Kombat or or or... basically, for most of gaming history Western use of music was little different than Japanese use of it. And from what I've seen lately, the trend of using music "cinematically" to highlight an instance is used just as often in Japanese gaming as in American.

As I said, he has to mean that. He's saying that part of the difference is caused by western developers having more film inspiration, which directly infers that Japanese developers don't have film inspiration. If he's not making that suggestion, then what's he saying?

Its like if I say "Blue jays are better than swallows because blue jays can fly." If I admit that swallows can also fly, then why are blue jays better?

Well for example, in the bit about controllable vs fixed cameras, he claims that Japanese gamers don't like controlling the camera because they're not used to it, and backs this up with an anecdote about how he saw players struggling with Lost Planet at a game expo. Those players could've been struggling for any reason—they're new to the game and haven't gotten out of the learning curve being the most likely one, with awkward camera controls being the second most likely, yet Inafune considers neither of these things and makes the logical leap that Japanese culture hates controlling the camera while Americans, in his words, "are better at multitasking" and don't mind controlling it. Okay, to be fair he probably just picked a bad example and has something more substantial to base his opinion on, but I'd be interested in learning what.

In all honesty about the only point he made that rang true was his statement about save systems and how Japanese designers like to incorporate it into the experience. That is one difference I've noticed between Japanese and American games.

I see nothing to back up these claims you make here. He says that Western designers have a stronger influence from films. That does not mean that Japanese does not take inspiration from films, but that they take less when compared to Western composers. Those are two quite different things.

Yes. I apologize for not mentioning it last night, but I used those as examples precisely because they are more recent games, so as to illuminate the current state of things. That is because I am assuming that Inafune is also talking about current games.

And of course, that music is used in the same way as in films is something that is happening in both Western and Japanese games. However, most of the current, popular games with "cinematic" music as gameplay music (that is to say, not just in cutscenes) come from Western composers, not Japanese. At the same time, there are more current, popular games being made by Japanese composers with clear "level"-music than there are in the West. That is the difference that Inafune is talking about when you look at the game industry as a whole.

As explained above, that one side has "more" infers that the other side has "less". "Less" is not the same as "not having any".

I agree that it is a terrible example, yet there is some truth in what he says about traditional Japanese gaming focusing less on the need to control the camera. Kobayashi also backs this up when he talks about Japanese game designers concentrating about making the game so that it is played the way they want it to be experienced.

Also, I am starting to wonder if you may not have been right when you suspected that HCG 101 was "making this up". Reading this closely, there is something...off about this interview. If this was really a professional interview, I could hardly imagine that the two of them together would have this little to say about such important subjects that they should be very knowledgeable about. Especially the way they dedicate all of Inafune's answer to the camera-question to that terrible example; that reeks of bad journalism. Perhaps not making the whole thing up, but picking and choosing in the replies in a way that fits their intended purpose with the article. It is a website for "hardcore gamers", after all.

There's that, and there's... well, HG 101 articles themselves are usually shakey. If you hang around that site long enough, and particularly the forums, it soon gives you the idea that while these guys may be on the ball 80% of the time, they should be taken with a grain of salt. Actually the biggest red flag for me is that they're actually a very small website, that mostly deals in reviewing retro games, and yet they somehow have a LOT of interviews with big-name Japanese developers. It just sounds fishy.

I suppose if we can't even trust the source of our debate, continuing said debate is rather pointless. I certainly don't want to drag Inafune's name through the mud for words that might not even be his.

Indeed. Thank you for the discussion, nonetheless.

...you other people can have the topic back to discuss what was actually in the opening post now.

Inafune attacking Japanese development again.

Ah, well, fuck you too

• sigh* Inafune, I don't know what to say to you anymore. Maybe if you actually came here to the West and see how the games are made here, then you'd shut up.

Seriously, this guy seems extremely depressed lately. I'd be able to sympathize with him if he, you now, actually started making more games like his current one rather than just whining about how Japan is "lacking" in game quality right now.

edited 7th Mar '12 10:03:08 PM by LDragon2

Is anyone thinking that Inafune is coming off as extremely arrogant? He just dismisses his country's entire video game industry and places himself on a pedestal as if he were Bigger Than Jesus. Repeatedly. It's like he thinks his new game, which currently is making very little noise anywhere btw, will singlehandedly save Japan video games. I'm not calling this Creator Breakdown just yet, but he's getting there.

Also, Korea wat.

You and me both.

Well, why not? Its industry is booming, even though a lot of it is rip-off products and gold farming.

I guess I should've made my point clearer. I was just surprised that that point was mentioned out of nowhere, didn't mean to dis the Korean game industry (don't know much about it though, so it's more of a Sure, Why Not? type of thing).

I think they missed the many times i have sucked all their dicks, and praised god for their birth.

I did think he did work with some Western Devs before...but really while I understand you guys' gripes about him, for your claims of "why not work here and see how it's like", well...do you have any idea of how the development's like back there?

Kawata agrees with Inafune. Japanese development is in "a terrible state".

sigh, god, I have no words

Great, now Fish is going to act like a bigger douche since he thinks he was right in what he said.

And Mega Man fans still worship him like God after all this? *sigh* Fandom...

Western fans apparently know more about Japanese development than Japanese developers.

Whether that was a sarcastic mockery of the attitudes within this thread or a mockery of how out-of-touch Japanese developers are is up to you.

Ah, when I though douchebaggery wasn worse

"wasn't"

I think we're missing the grammar nazi aspect of douchebaggery here.

Also, I tend to agree with the "developers are not getting much respect anywhere" model. It certainly fits with what we've seen from the larger companies.

@Scardoll: Both, but I think Inafune might be the exception to the latter...he has worked with western developers before doesn't he? The stupid western fans who think they know more about Japanese ge developer than the developers themselves on the other hand...

@some others: And Inafune is such a douche for saying what some other developers have been saying for years?

edited 8th Mar '12 6:24:43 PM by onyhow

The fact that Japanese developers are losing money hand over fist because no one is buying their games should clue you in.

The fact that the only properties Square-Enix owns that are turning a profit are their recently acquired Eidos games should clue you in (and many Japanese companies are saying Square-Enix are geniuses for acquiring Eidos.)

The fact that more and more attempts at traditional Western genres should clue you in. (ie. Binary Domain.)