The Uncle Tom Stigma

There are many Black conservative Democrats, especially in the South.

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Constant going off about historical oppression within and without the black community. OWS carrying pictures of keloids as an argument against capitalism, for instance. It's probably not concern trolling, but it has the same effect.

Well, thinking in terms of community makes sense, but it takes a sharp nosedive into Unfortunate Implications when we get into "once you go black, you never go back," in the sense that racial community and identity is permanent and immutable.

USAF@I think its a generational left over from segregation and maybe even slavery.Black people had each other to rely on and that bond was what probably got through the toughness of their oppression.

Even though your not a Christian anymore I still think you would believe that the actions of sin can affect generations of people.And by sin I mean slavery and segregation which in my opinion should count as great sins.

edited 19th Oct '11 8:56:59 PM by joyflower

The sins of the father pass on to the son.

Bleh... this is how I think of it:

I am ethnically (partially, anyhow) Mexican. By the logic here, I should vote for things that help Mexican immigrants—like my dad was—regardless.

Except, I grew up in the US. I was born in Wisconsin, raised in Wisconsin, and live in Wisconsin. By general sociological pattern, I am an average teenage white American.

So, why would I vote for such things? I may just vote for some because I think they're right, but not because of racial ties. I'm American; of the United States of America. Done, period, end, that's all she wrote, the fat lady is singing, over with, finished.

I—and everyone else—should support what they think is right, not what fits with some arbitrary racial, gender-based, sexual orientation-based, religious, or other group-based "standard."

@Doma Doma:

I understand the concern over historical injustice, and human suffering in general, getting utilized for arbitrary goals.

On the other hand, legal racial segregation existed in the US up to 1965. Means that people from c. 50 years of age upward still have first-hand experience of state-sanctioned racism. It’s not that far back.

If racism is dead and gone and everyone has learned their lesson from it, then it can't be a problem to talk about it freely.

You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth.

We have to remember that the Uncle Tom label is, like most other labels in language and culture, an indication of group affiliation or lack thereof. Human beings are inherently social creatures, and we have evolved to survive by working in groups. Concepts such as culture, language and identity were forged as co-factors of this group-survival complex. In turn, when someone appears to venture beyond the norms of the group, they are labelled as an outsider.

Toni Morrison once said, in paraphrasing, that there is not a single issue in politics, education, family and community development that does not concern black people. I think she is still right, and I'm not saying that because I'm black. I'm saying that because there are still many gross discrepancies between the social progress of the African American community (and let's not get started on the meaning of that term) and other members of US society. For example, we only make up about 12 percent of the US population, yet about 40% of all incarcerated individuals are black males. When you look at the impact slavery and institutional segregation still have on society, you can't shrug it off and say "it was over 150 years ago, get over it". Those numbers I just typed didn't pop up out of nowhere.

The same is true with attempts to self-educate, self-rationalize and self-motivate. We recognize problems in the group and various people have different ways of solving problems with both individuality and the spirit of community. I, for example, didn't work toward a Master's degree, date outside of my race and watch anime to "fit in" with white Americans. I do those things because that's what I like. It reminds me of a conversation between two black characters in the movie "Higher Learning". The guy looks down at the bleachers, points to his colleague and says "as a black woman, does that not upset you?" He is referring to the other guy's white girlfriend. The female character, played by Tyra Banks, responds with "I don't want him".

I suspect the point being made in that scene is that part of being emancipated means being an individual and following your individual interests. I personally can't stand other black guys who actively pursue white women just to "fit in" or because "black women are too aggressive". That's not searching for a woman. That's searching for a type of novelty, a one-dimensional novelty at that. Those who truly do follow the Uncle Tom label (and knowingly do so) are perpetuating internalized racism much in the way many anti-feminist women are engaging in internalized sexism. If you want to vote Republican and you're black, go right ahead, but don't preach about how "the blacks" need to lay off the government hand-outs when you're essentially generalizing an entire group of people - your own people. It's a slap in the face, and anyone who uses that line of thinking, black or otherwise, needs to brush up on their history.

To clarify for those of you TL:DR types out there, I'm arguing that the Uncle Tom label, just like its counterpart, the hardcore "gangsta" label, is a side-effect of one who possesses a broken or fragmented sense of individuality. I see this in other ethnic groups all the time. I have a Jewish colleague who has been criticized by some of his friends for being a closeted anti-Semite just because he doesn't like what the Israeli government is doing to the Palestinians. This is ironic because he is quite fluent in Hebrew, teaches religious studies as a TA (teacher's assistant) at his university and probably knows more about Jewish culture and the Judaic faith than all of his other Jewish friends. But he's a traitor because he sympathizes with the Palestinians.

It's like we've been hardwired to sniff out irregularities in a group, like ants or rats. It's really not fair. Like I said, there are people who intentionally avoid members of their own ethnic group out of a misplaced sense of fear or shame, but there are those who are wrongly called traitors for relatively minor issues like dating outside of their race or not speaking AAVE (African American Vernacular English) in daily conversations. Using the term "traitor" even sounds kind of silly, like we're all playing a game of Risk or Modern Warfare 2, but that's how people really think.

To continue my analogy, there is a big difference between the black guy who happens to have a white girlfriend and the black guy who only dates white women to climb some pre-conceived social ladder or find someone more submissive. Or a much better example: Uncle Tom not disclosing the location of the other escaped slaves as opposed to actual Africans capturing their tribal members in exchange for money from Spanish and Portuguese slave traders (yes, this actually happened). Likewise, I wouldn't lump a pro-Palestinian Jewish American in the same moral category as a German Jew who sold out his entire friends and family in exchange for safe haven from the Holocaust (again this actually happened).

I'm admittedly thread hopping and post skimming, so if this has already been said, my apologies.

edited 20th Oct '11 2:42:21 PM by Aprilla

It's times like this I wish TV Tropes had a "like" button.

Well said.

Look, this is in some cases, about who one primarily identifies with.

I'm a young person and a racial minority, so logically I would vote Democrat based on those interests alone. But I'm also a Catholic, a member of the bourgeoisie (though my mother came from a farmer background) and a pro-lifer, and I identify with those concepts more politically, so the Republican Party seems at this time to be my natural home. And I don't really see anything wrong with that.

Also, fun fact: My local CR chapter's central committee only have one Non-Hispanic white male guy on there - the rest are either members of racial or ethnic minorities, or women.

I've heard that the modern use of the term Uncle Tom comes from the fact that in stage productions of the novel, Uncle Tom was portrayed as an Ethnic Scrappy, even if he isn't that in the original work.

Also, I don't think the stigma is necessarily across partisan lines. For instance, Tom Dubois on The Boondocks tends to be given this treatment, and he's a liberal Democrat.

Which goes to reveal more preconceptions people have about politics and political parties as well as race.

Just have to pop in and whine, sorries in advance!

"This one still does not understand just what "acting white" means - Beholderess"

Blueninja:

"From my observations it generally means being smart, having a white-collar job, and/or despising rap."

Why'd nobody call this out? I'm at a loss for words.

edited 26th Oct '11 11:36:24 AM by DisasterGrind

Could you specify just what needs to be called out?

Blueninja's response. Isn't it obvious? It's implying something incredibly sinister.

On Topic: I like to think of being an Uncle Tom as being similar to being Weeaboo, but with regards to White culture instead of Japanese culture.

edited 26th Oct '11 11:44:49 AM by DisasterGrind

The stereotypical weaboo often fetishes Japanese culture qua Japanese culture. I don't really see that in the folks derided as "Toms"/"coconuts".

edited 26th Oct '11 11:48:33 AM by MRDA1981

I think you need to re-read my comment,chum. ',:D

Well, that was pretty much the point, as far as this one one understands. Implying that by "being smart, having a white-collar job, and/or despising rap" one buys into "White's cultural dominance" or what have you is indeed unfortunate, and that's why applying such labels is unwise

Seconding this.

But that's not the point; it's like you guys are saying that Black culture as a whole despises all of those things, and criticize those who are smart, have a good job, or hate rap. Give Black people more credit than that. You can't honestly belive that there's an entire culture that strives to be stagnant?

Furthermore, it's implying that it's only White culture that idealizes smarts, jobs, etc. No reasonble person will call another person an Uncle Tom because of any of those things.

Uncle Tom used to be a derogatory term levelled at Blacks who were subservient to Whites. Over time, that started happening a lot less, so the definition of the term mutated into being 'someone who acts stereotypically White'. This does not have anything to do with their amount of smarts, job, or whatever, it's about basically being a weeaboo for White culture and forsaking your own, which is unhealthy.

edited 26th Oct '11 12:30:35 PM by DisasterGrind

But that's not who the Uncle Tom label is aimed at.

That's exactly why I posted. Look at that interaction with Blueninja and Beholderess again.

edited 26th Oct '11 12:33:29 PM by DisasterGrind

reading comprehension fail, sorry 'bout that

This one is not aware of what is considered "Stereotypically White". So this one assumed that it is not acting "stereotypically Black" (not! saying that these stereotypes are in any way justified, mind you) what was condemned