Gundam AGE

Pretty much. Unicorn's the one that's paying the bills over there; AGE has done very, very badly, in every conceivable measure of the term. Guess the naysayers were right.

It was that and general lack of interest, it just didn't go beyond its roots. Still an okay story though.

So, disregarding the last two reviews on the page (which were done in the aftermath of the finale), I have to wonder the thoughts of the folk who actually gave the series sort-of positive nods prior the finale, post-mortem, particularly the "return to form" review.

As an aside, it's kind of damning when Kaiohshin, one of the loudest if not THE loudest supporters of Sunrise/Gundam franchises (barring Destiny) in fora... calls the series mediocre.

As for me personally... Didn't think it was that much of a waste of time, and there are a lot of great individual stuff. It's just everything was just executed so poorly that, by the time the ending rolled in, I couldn't take it seriously anymore.

edited 24th Sep '12 10:07:08 PM by MyssaRei

It has been a long journey indeed. This is the first Gundam series I've continually watched while it was airing. A lot of it sucked, but I'll be damned if a lot of stuff wasn't bad. It could have been so great, so different.

But no, the writers had to shoehorn in a lot of the things one expects of a Gundam show, or just your ordinary super robot show, and it became stale when it did that. And of course, they also did a lot of things that would have been bad in any show.

Adding in an annoying, badly-designed, fat comic relief for not one but two of the major story arcs (and in general the strange art style, while not bad, was particularly bad for some characters); adding in three annoying small kids to reside on the main battleship ala MSG; making one character a total pacifist (mitigated by the fact that everyone else tells him that's idiotic, made irreconcilable by making him a God-Mode Sue); killing characters left and right for no good reason; making almost all of the side cast almost useless or irrelevant (I'm looking at you, Bridge Bunnies and Red Shirt Army); making the women irrelevant (a big no-no for me personally); having the villain make a Shocking Swerve for no good reason; not having a proper epilogue; so many other things. You'll note that of these most took place in Kio's arc, sadly.

The sad part is that it wasn't all bad. Some characters were actually quite nice. Some moments were nice. Yurin was great because she wasn't overstated, she was a character with no unnecessary actions, something quite rare. Flit's character was epic in how he evolved and could have been expanded upon. Asemu had some great character development in his arc. Woolf was pretty much great. Grodek Ainoa was fantastic.

Sigh.

If only the general mood and themes had been more consistent it could have been great. But seriously, if Sunrise keeps refusing to take risks with their plots and keep doing the same thing over and over it'll only lead to disaster. I leave the rest of the arguments for why this show sucked and how much it sucked to someone else. I'm out.

Still, I have hope that Unicorn is in safe hands and that the next full-length Gundam won't suck as much.

Unicorn isn't doing much with the established formula either, but the execution of the formula made a whole world of difference by comparison. And the execution was one of the major problems AGE had.

eowynjedi: So, are you updating your review, post-mortem?

edited 25th Sep '12 1:34:51 AM by MyssaRei

You know what might have saved Kio for me, when he started taking his turn towards pacifism? He didn't pilot the damn robot.

No, seriously. Once he gets back from Second Moon, he refuses to pilot. He attempts other methods of resolving the conflict, like bringing attention of the state of Second Moon to other pilots, to the government, to the media. See how people react when they learn that the people they've been fighting for 60+ years are actually very, very desperate people. Put doubt in their minds. Show riots on the streets as war-weary civilians, already so sick of a war that has lasted longer than they've been alive, vent their anger. Anything other than "Granddad, you should stop trying to kill everyone! Other side, stop trying to kill me! Uhm...understanding!"

It might make their turn when Flit makes his speech more believable if there was already doubt that they wanted to keep fighting.

I mean, really. Apart from Vegan Gear and Zanald, what did Kio really manage to accomplish in the AGE-FX? I swear it has the worst record of all final-upgrade Gundams.

One last question, because I may have missed it: So, everyone on the Vagan side lived on or around Second Moon, which was parked above Mars orbit, and being bombarded with the horrible MARS RAYS, yeah? They moved Second Moon into Earth orbit in the last episodes, right?

Could they ALWAYS do that? I mean...maybe I missed "Hey, we finally fixed rockets to this thing.", or something, but otherwise, if they had the ability to move Second Moon...why the heck didn't they at least move it AWAY from Mars and it's HORRIBLE MARS RAYS?

I should. I'll probably have to rewrite the whole thing, haha. It is important to remember that there was a lot of good stuff, though.

It probably was because it wasn't capable before, but no, you didn't miss anything—they just didn't explain it. Though I suspect if they had the capability before AG 108, the Feddies would have shot them down to keep their secret.

...Although the Feddies are really bad at being a corrupt police state in this one.

And refusing to pilot would have been a pretty logical choice for Kio, actually. At the least, he should have run off with his dad instead of staying with Grandpa Genocide.

The only problem with that is, if - if there's been a sixty-year war, where the enemy was the aggressors, and they were inhuman butchers...And I learnt we could wipe their entire foul species out...You'd have people going: "DROP THE BOMB! NUKE THE VEIGANS! BURN THEM ALL!" which would be rather counter-intuitive to UNDERSTANDING.

Also, the people of Earth don't really seem to be suffering from the war...Which seems wrong to me, because I thought Earth would be like a police state - With all resources poured into fighting the Veigan threat. It feels as if, between generations, they merely sit on their hands and swivel.

As the author of the "Nice return to form" review, I admit that I probably spoke too soon. The sad thing is, I really enjoyed AGE (even with all its faults) until episode 39. How this series could collapse into a Destiny-caliber mess so rapidly is beyond me. And while I knew AGE was going to have an "Understanding Ending", I really wasn't expecting Kio practically mind-raping his grandfather to have an out-of-left-field change of heart. Considering the fact that, with the exception of Ezelcant, every Vagan was dead by Episode 48, I really don't know why Hino had to use an Ass Pull by bringing a new character in the final episode when they could've just sent Ezelcant, failing health and all, to have a last-ditch fight against Kio.

Anyway, I'll definitely update my review to include my views of the final 10 episodes of the series. I'm practically in tears, because the first two generations were pretty good, if rushed and filled with bad dialogue. Let me know if you have any other suggestions for my review update.

Yeah, they didn't do a whole lot with the "Federation is secretly evil" plot thread. Maybe if they'd replaced G1's Fardain conflict with a principled Feddie underling vs. a corrupt governor, they could still have let Flit have his STOP FIGHTING GUYS moment and got the mobile suits Grodek was looking for (it always puzzled me why he wanted Don Boyage's, because they were blatantly not up to the job).

And the aftermath of Ambat with Grodek didn't make much sense, either. Grodek fibbed that he forced them all into it, but a proper police state wouldn't take that into consideration: the Diva crew still found out their scientifically-inaccurate little secret about Mars so they should have been Dealt With in some kind of stricter manner. As for Grodek himself? If the death penalty's been abolished, he should have gotten life. And if they couldn't get him life for some reason, they should have arranged an "accident" of some kind on his release. Instead, they let him get access to more of their dirty secrets, let him charm his captors, and they wasted their time on a risky plot to groom Arabel for REVENGE... and let him meet with Flit again. If Grodek had decided to give him the information the first night, they'd have been toast a lot sooner than episode 28.

Sloppy, Feds. Sloppy.

Gundam Age The series as a whole has left me whelmed…not overwhelmed not underwhelmed simply whelmed;and that is not what a Gundam series is supposed to do. Across the decades and through multiple series/timelines the name of Gundam has become synonyms with Greatness. At time entries into the storied franchise have for one reason or another have arguably been failures; F91 and Seed Destinty. However even those lesser series had a degree of gravitas to them! AGE ultimately lacks this. Perhaps it was because AGE written to be something for everyone, so it failed to truly please anyone;maybe it was poor execution? Gundam-00 wove narrative elements and even an actor or two from past Gundam series into it’s structure , while still maintaining a distinct identity. Though not a perfect series by any stretch of the imagination it was a satisfying one, that stayed true to it’s narrative-essence. Gundam AGE’s biggest fault was the weakness of it’s Narrative-Essence. It’s story was overshadowed by the elements borrowed from past Gundam series; most prominently the U.C. series. This heavy borrowing resulted in an ungainly integration of themes from Old School and New School Mecha anime. The Old School notion of the grim utility of Violence and War, The New School notion that (quasi-mystical)Understanding one another will solve all problems. Now to be one hundred percent honest, both Old and New School have valid point; you must fight to live and protect what is precious to you. Understanding one another is an essential element to peace and coexistence. The afore mentioned “ungainly integration of Schools Old and New” is most painfully obvious in the third Arc/GEN. Kio Asuno comes across as weak and ineffectual because he persist in preaching Understanding to the detriment of himself and his allies. Ultimately even Kio fails to fulfill his goals of peace through Understanding. The one that succeeds is ironically Flit “kill em all” Asuno. Through out the course of it’s run Gundam AGE has been utter mediocrity punctuated with brief moments of utter brilliance! Any series is going to have it’s up and downs. However that is to extreme a swing between the point on the Quality-Curve to be acceptable. None of us knows what the future has in store for the Gundam franchise. But i do know this if a higher and more importantly “consistent” quality of writing is not demand for the next Gundam series; then franchise we have all come to love will die.

Now For some wishful thinking.

First and foremost for Yoshiyuki “Kill Em All” Tomino’s G-Reko project set durring U.C. 1000 to be both a critical and financial success.

A revisit to the 00-Verse. in Mobile Suit Gundam 00V Battlefield Record, There is mention of a war breaking out between Innovators and Resentful/Xenophobic normal humans; they could get at least a six episode OVA out of that.

A return to the Universal Century, perhaps animated adaptation of Cross Bones Gundam. And if that were to prove successful a relaunch of F91 because folks are going to want know were Crossbones Vanguard and Characters like Kincaid came from.

A return to the After War vers, because that timeline has much untapped potential.

Lastly for the writer/producer of the next Gundam series to first be straped down to a chair and have the taste of pacifism and understanding. pimp slapped out of his mouth by “Kill Em All” Tomino. Then he be forced to study all of the Gundam Tropes and Conventions from the Source! Beginning with old freaking Testament! Mobile Suite Gundam,Zeta Gundam, Double Zeta, Char’s Counter. Then The New Testament, Victory Gundam. And Finally the Apocrypha, 08th MS Team,Stardust Memories, War In the Pocket.

I'd disagree vehemently over Gundam AGE being really that bad, but that's subjective. What I objectively disagree with is the wishful notion of "quality" "saving" the franchise from extinction: As long as they can sell toys, the franchise will not die.

Bingo.

I don't /want/ another copy of UC Gundam. What I feel has hurt a lot of the recent series was the fact that they didn't stray far enough from UC Gundam out of fear, so you get these half-hearted series that please no one.

And, besides, a lot of UC Gundam isn't actually that /good/.

I want a female lead. Period.

Ol' Kill Em All almost got that in V Gundam. But I honestly want a female lead, piloting the gundam and kicking ass. Although this is Japan we're talking about so that might not happen for a while.

I think AGE might fall victim to the same thing that got Gundam X.

People were just so exposed to Gundam that it...well...Burned Out. And if they don't change something it will just get worse.

I have to say the fight scenes and music were cool, but I dropped it halfway through the Kio arc. So much wasted potential. :(

"Lastly for the writer/producer of the next Gundam series to first be straped down to a chair and have the taste of pacifism and understanding. pimp slapped out of his mouth by “Kill Em All” Tomino. Then he be forced to study all of the Gundam Tropes and Conventions from the Source! Beginning with old freaking Testament! Mobile Suite Gundam, Zeta Gundam, Double Zeta, Char’s Counter. Then The New Testament, Victory Gundam. And Finally the Apocrypha, 08th MS Team, Stardust Memories, War In the Pocket."

Please no. I like UC, but I'm with everyone else who doesn't want an exact duplicate, and that's what'll happen if you do that. Either make them watch entries from all across the franchise, or better yet, bring someone in who has the same knowledge of Gundam as the average person in the west does about Star Trek, ie the basic premise, a couple of characters and not much more.

Kio's arc really seems to have done it for a lot of people. There's complaining all across the YMMV and Headscratchers page about them turning into Kira, but I think the problem's a lot worse than that because I like Kira, and still can't stand Kio. They couldn't seem to make up their mind whether his pacifism was dumb or the wave of the future and it really hurts the show.

edited 28th Sep '12 11:05:55 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Okay. Just watched the final episode.

...

I'd rant but my time is better spent watching better things. Just gonna say that this show had a lot of good moments which were unfortunately crappily glued together, often with bad moments.

I hope they don't attribute AGE's lack of success to it being different. That's really not why it failed at all.

It failed because it stuck too close to the Kira Jesus Yamato template. But I am more than sure than the people who thought it would suck based on the art style felt validated by how it turned out.

Actually, if you think of Gundam AGE as the end result of giving perfectly pristine ingredients to someone with the culinary know-how of, oh I dunno, Nisekoi's Chitoge or Onodera, then it makes a lot of sense. AGE had a LOT of things going for it, but in the end it got knee-capped by bad writing and frankly terrible execution.

edited 29th Sep '12 12:33:11 AM by MyssaRei

I will say that the last episode would have been infinitely more interesting if it had of been Deen in the Vegan Gear, rather than soulless robot soldier we have no reason to care, good or bad, about.

I wouldn't want an except copy of the U.C. either; A return to perhaps? Think about the copy of copy phenomenon, which each successive iteration the quality degrades. And that's what I meant by relearn all of Gundam's Tropes and Conventions from the source. I feel that recent Gundam series have been copying the style not the substance; at least 00 tried to establish a substance of it's own.

I don't Feel teh RAGE, i even had fun watching it. However it was an inconsistent and ultimately mediocre series.

Also, am I the only person bothered by Asme's Super pilot shtick.

Yes. Let it go.

Oh, don't think I am the only person bothered by the shtick "Super Pilot" and other such occurrence across fiction; others haven't articulated their feelings of disquiet.

It's a Trope or maybe group of related Tropes, that remain nameless even to those that recognize their existence. I've been calling them,The Batman Problem and The Batman Threshold.

The Batman Problem: The purpose of Superhuman characters be they hero or villain. is to do things that a normal human can not do easily or at all. When a normal human can get the same or better results than a Superhuman, the entire reason for having Superhumans has been defeated.

The Batman Threshold: Is the line separating Genuine Badnass Normals from Badass Faux)Normals, who are superhuman in all but name. And that threshold is crossed whenever a Normal begins to inexplicably fight superhumans on a even footing.

A Normal Human couldn't Beat a Superhuman in fair fight. The wider the gap between the capabilities of you and your opponent the lower your chances of beating them in direct confrontation. The Best trained Normal Humans can break bone with their bear hands and hit you before you even realized that they had started moving. So what would happen to the Person who picks a fight with a Superhuman? All the "Humanity F*ck YEAH!" attitude could not save them, from the ensuing Beatdown! So faced with this problem how dose our Hero win?

1.The Hero gains Superhuman capabilities of their own.

2.Fight smart! The Hero doesn't bother trying to fight fair. they use dirty tricks and an over abundance of weapons and gadgetry to level the playing field against a superior opponent.

3.CHEAT! The Hero simply gains the ability to fight Superhumans on an even footing;without being Recognized as a being superhuman themselves.

Sometimes Authors will try to justify the crossing of the Batman Threshold through a Trope that I call the Talent dichotomy Skill .