The Satanism Thread

That implies that "self denying" is inherently the same thing as "moron", which you must prove to be the case.

Somehow you know that the time is right.

In this case it implies that 'self denying' is a subset of 'morons'.

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'

But are all self-denying people morons?

Somehow you know that the time is right.

^ I've been told so in the Fetishes thread, but I disagree. I won't go into details, but suffice it to say that I have never acted on and will never act on some of my innate urges, even in the context of roleplay.

(If anyone's willing to take a fiction recommendation, Speed Grapher makes an argument for this that has met with wide approval, though I personally disagree with some of its conclusions.)

edited 12th Oct '11 12:25:00 AM by feotakahari

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful

I agree with feo, sort-of.

Not all self-denials are moronic*

; all people who have a general habit of self denial, on the other hand...

*

edited 12th Oct '11 2:16:43 AM by SavageOrange

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'

Ah, okay. I was misunderstanding that a bit.

Somehow you know that the time is right.

I seem to have caused some confusion over semantics.

I say 'sin' because, well, what else should I call anger, lust, envy, greed, gluttony, and all those others collectively? indulgences? For the sake of clarity I call them sins.

Another way to look at is that when I said "sins" I should of said "so called sins"

As for The Darkness and entropy, what I was saying was that The Darkness was the only thing in existance originally. It actually would of been complete order, I think. No reality, no space, no matter, and no energy.

What I was saying when I said it was "entropic" was that it started with nothing, and is eventually working towards nothing.

The Universe stared as nothing, and will return to nothing. Big Crunch, Big Chill, whatever, the way I see it The Darkness rules over entropy the way it rules over all other non-living (that is, most of) the Universe.

My first experience with the term "entropy" was from Roger Penrose's book "The Road to Reality" and and one part it was talking about how to measure the entropy of a black-hole.

Though read this section from Wikipedia, I meant it in this way when I said entropic:

entropic =/= chaotic. it is actually entropic = related to the balance of chaos and order

And at that my beliefs of The Darkness ISNT just about entropy, that's just where I uncreatively got the name from. It governs ALL non-life sciences. That includes physics. Everyone seems to have thought I said entropy is the only thing it governs.

And sorry for the caps a few days ago, I was falling asleep and my laptop was dying, I didnt have time to try and figure out how to articulate the point so i capitalized the important bit. I wasnt mad or yelling or anything like that. it wasnt my intent

Edit: this is why i didnt want to go into my metaphysical beliefs. Its a disgusting mash-up of gnosticism, pantheism, and Le Vayan Satanism that makes no sense to anyone unless you want to sit down for 2 hours for me to explain it all.

edited 12th Oct '11 4:51:57 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

Huh. But if your 'natural' (given value of natural) instinct is to deny your self certain pleasures — say, that last bit of cake — why would you deny yourself the simple pleasure of self-denial?

It just seems to me that 'self-denial' is logically impossible.

I meant abstinence instead of indulgence. That's called compulsion to give into every little thing you feel.

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

However the only way you would get to that point is by enforcing self-denial many times beforehand; so it's only logically impossible if you assume that self-denial is a default setting rather than a learned habit.

edited 12th Oct '11 4:50:24 PM by SavageOrange

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'

.... If you believe that I honestly do not know how to articulate what I am saying. Indulgence is like 'treating' yourself to hedonistic pleasures, not being a mindless beast. we all have those needs, they are evolutionary survival mechanisms. Christianity teaches to abstain from meeting our needs to indulge.

thats all i can really say if someone still doesn't get it I can't help you.

edit: lets get to another topic on satanism.. too many questions about a few details and not enough people answering.

edit: i mean , for every person who proivdes an answer to a question, two more questions about the answer come up, and its like its never ending

EDIT: I think what people have to remember about theistic satanism is that our beliefs are wildly ranging. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_satanism#Diversity_of_viewpoints_within_Theistic_Satanism

My beliefs to be honest are not fully developed, least of all in the metaphysical areas. I just hadn't had the time or experience/knowledge yet to develop it fully.

As one satanist said (i dont know if this was his own saying or a quote) "Religion is not based in truth, it is based in experience."

So ya, I'm pretty much using the WillingSuspensionofDisbelief to allow myself to get to a state of mind that allows me to live my life to the fullest and choose to structure my beliefs around what motivates me the most.

edited 12th Oct '11 8:10:12 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

Actually, that would be Christians, not the religion itself. Hell, according to the Bible, the body is a temple of God, as he created it; to honor Him, you can treat your body well, and keep yourself healthy *

^{This is a favorite thought among Christians, it's everywhere}

. That's all well and good, but nearly every Christian out there has a different definition to what healthy is. The Bible says sex is good and natural, though you probably shouldn't go sleeping around with everyone, not only for basic decency of social norms, but also to (at least by today's standards and wealth of knowledge) prevent yourself from contracting certain diseases. Eating's great and all that, but you should eat healthy when you can, meaning that the chocolate cake over there isn't Satan incarnate in a mad gambit to tempt you to gain 3 lbs.

A lot of what "Christian doctrine" dictates is Fanon, for whatever reason. My point is that the same can be done with Satanism, or any other religion rather, though most Satanists tend to disagree with that whole idea of Fanon, which is a breath of fresh air.

Looking over a few Wikipedia articles, for all intents and purposes, my philosophical standpoints lines up in a few ways with Satanist thought (though the idea of a "lair" sounds just plain loony to me) and standpoint, especially accepting responsibility for yourself. Some things seem a bit radical though, but I suppose that's to be expected.

Though something bugs me a bit:

I don't think this follows. One who questions would naturally be a questioner. I can question a law, even if I stand in favor of it. Hell, doesn't this seem to go against some of the principles of Satanism, which is open-mindedness, instead of a "shoot first, ask questions later" mindset.

Any thoughts on that?

edited 12th Oct '11 5:14:09 PM by Newfable

I think he also said that someone who believes in anything supernatural in any way is at least somewhat crazy. so i dont really trust him a whole bunch. La Vey did indicate in believing in things considered magic now but may actually be scientific law later on. He alluded to some historical examples

Though to answer your question, I think being open minded requires a questioning attitude, which is part of the rebel. When one is open minded they consider other view points. they have to question their own doctrines and others to get to 'the truth'.

Submission tends to favor not asking questions, where as rebellion encourages questioning things. The way I look at it is: "If it's true, it can stand any of my questioning. If it's not, it will crumble."

I do agree with the part about fanon. See my last edit above your post, i mention about how the fanon, and in many cases, canon among the theistic satanists can vary wildly.

ineed it is refreshing to see people think for themselves and develop their own views

edited 12th Oct '11 5:23:16 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

It's strange, but Gilmore does make a generally good point, in that believing in the supernatural is either crazy or devoid of reason, because it is. It's faith. There's absolutely no way to prove that God exists *

, but people still believe in Him; that goes against every form of logic and reason that your average, everyday, rational human being was brought up to think. In that way, Gilmore does have a point, though that doesn't necessitate the idea that having faith, due to it's inherent illogical or unreasonable nature, is bad, but just what it means.

I think our terms of rebellion may differ. Insofar as thinking of Satan or even the idea of Satan in relation to Christian context, God said kneel to humans, to which Satan directed God's lips to his ass. This didn't go over so well. In that case, yes, it was rebellion since the idea of worship was never even brought to question; the thought was outright rebelled against without much thought. Questioning usually denotes curiosity or a willingness to learn, or a desire for knowledge or understanding.

Say some kind of authority figures asks something of you. You ask why, or at least for further explanation to the request. They fill you in on it, and you understand why they asked it of you. If you go against it, then it's rebellion. If you skip asking at all, and immediately go against the request, then it's also rebellion.

Though I can see where you're coming from, since a lot of authority figures, or people in positions of power, tend to discourage asking questions, since understanding leads to freedom of thought and a more educated choice, to which some people may choose to rebel against whatever is being asked of said authority figure (they tend to dislike that). So they'll treat questioning as rebellion from the get go, so a lot of inquisitive minds start treating it as such.

credo quia absurdum est

Disclaimer To Avoid Wrong-Impression-Givin': Not religious.

I agree completely, as my post implies. Are you sure you meant to reply to my post and not to the post above mine, which was written by mmysqueeant?

edited 12th Oct '11 6:23:04 PM by SavageOrange

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'

I just love how in the American version of Dragon Ball Mr. Satan is actually called Mr. Hercules unlike the latin Dub.

I like to use this as an example of how there is more moral panic and puritanism in the US than in Latin America.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

Oh, and habits are a part of you.

Shaping "yourself" once "you" are already formed is self-denial, I suppose, more than obeying habits which are instinctual.

That's why I was so mealy-mouthed about the word "natural".

sorry i think you ninja'd me or I forgot to add an extra arrow. I wasn't replying to you.

Though the sin thing... I can't explain it well enough but the Artist "Sick Tanick" can. (say that three times fast and it sounds like "Satanic"

Anyway, excuse for music, way!!! The Devil always has the best tunes.

Ave Satana!

edited 12th Oct '11 8:13:44 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

YES! AVE OUR LORD!

My favorite site is back up. The owner must of fixed it.

http://theisticsatanism.com/

Hell ya, now I can try and branch out into some more theistic sources. been trying to get back to her site recently. Gonna read up on some of her takes on La Vey and then see this essay from this other site she linked too.

Wait... this is a double post lol who cares? oh for all those questioners there is alot of stuff in here for a theistic view of things, a very balanced and friendly site

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

I can only speak for myself, but my Question isn't about semantics, it is conceptual: Why are you basing your religion on a religion you disagree with intirely?

it makes sense in context, and no i wont explain it to you because every time I try to on this specific point i get to a point where it turns out the person just wanted to argue because they hold Satanism in contempt.

But if you want a short answer, alternatecharacterinterpretation + the Bible was the Fox news of its day.

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

If I'm understanding this correctly, theistic Satanists agree with Christians about the basic cosmology of the universe, they just disagree about which side are the "good guys," as it were. Which is fair enough, I guess, though still too limiting for my tastes.

Stuff what I do.

depends on the theistic satanist. but most agree that satan is good to man in some way. the question was directed at my beliefs and thats personally me. i do not agree with the metaphysical views of the Bible, but what I said a couple of posts above was my own view on it.

some Theistic Satanists are actually polytheistic and believe in many ancient gods and just incorperate Satan into their worship.

this page can give a run down on the different kinds of theistic satanists

http://theisticsatanism.com/varieties/index.html

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

Been a while since a post.

Anyway recently (a week or two ago) I had a small Satanic identity crises as I started to rapidly deconstruct my theological beliefs.

Though after a few days I started to calm down and reconstruct my metaphysical beliefs and figure out what went wrong in where things didn't feel right anymore. It was a bit upsetting but I think that the experience was a good reminder that I should never be too sure of my own beliefs, least I fall into complacency and non-doubt.

Anyway, Thursday I started to make formal plans for my "Renunciation of the Trinity". Essentially it is the ultimate sin; worse than abominations. It basically entails me formally, solemnly rejecting the three persons of the Trinity in a pre-meditated manner.

As quoted from my favorite Theistic Satanist site:

As it stands now I already wrote up my blasphemes and renunciations for each of the three. I wanted to do the ritual as soon as I could but still have enough time to prepare. I've been wanting to do this for about a month or two now actually though.

I thought 'hey it would be cool to finish the ritual on a Sunday!' because it is done thrice over three days.

So I scheduled for it to begin on the Friday after the next. Later I realized that means that the ritual will start on October 28th, and end on October 31st!

Even better, Jesus died on a Friday, so I will reject him then. God's sabath for the Jews was on Saturday, so that day I will reject him, and on Sunday, the day that Christians meet with each other and experience the Holy Spirit, will be the final day of the ritual, and mark the exorcism of the Holy Ghost from my body.

I know, that's a lot of symbolism.

With my set of theology Yahweh has power, and accepting his "forgiveness" basically equals slavery for me. I believe in the place called "Heaven", but not Hell. So for me to not be locked up with a God I hate forever I need to expel whatever of him is left in me.

I'm ready for this though, make no mistake. I wouldn't do this if I wasn't sure. I realize that after this, according to the Bible, I will never be accepted back. Christianity will never be an option again, and if I am wrong and the Bible really is all true after all, then I will go to hell.

And yet it somehow seems to not bother me at all that that possibility exists. Funny, then again like I said I do not believe in Hell, probably because I do not believe the Christian God to be the true cosmic god.

In other news, I actually added a deity to my theology; I realized that the force that should be balancing out 'The Darkness' should be somewhere. I then thought 'hey, if The Darkness rules the physical non-living universe, and Satan rules the living, then who rules the abstract concepts and spirits?'

Why "The Light" of course, the god of death, sciences like mathematics, abstract concepts and the "spiritual"/quite dead world. I guess it would be the force that accounts for ghosts, spirits, and godhood and what not.

Boy, I am sure creative with these names, but then again the Eastern Ideas I stole and corrupted just called it "ying and yang".

Thank Lilith for the first amendment! Maybe if my new beliefs in "The Light" test out okay in the schemes of my lifestyle, it will work.

Take a note: These beliefs may or may not reflect "reality", however if the beliefs are useful in a mundane and practical way I see nothing wrong with believing in it anymore than believing in any abstract concept that has no physical reality.

edited 22nd Oct '11 9:32:55 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly