Once Upon A Time

I think Rumple's actions in this season fit his character perfectly. We've seen thoughout the series that he cares about very, very few people, and even when he does care about them he's quite willing to deceive and manipulate them in order to 'protect' or retain control of them. He's probably the most evil character in the series, and is to blame - directly for indirectly - for pretty much every bad thing that has happened, because of all the formerly-decent people he corrupted over his years as the Dark One. He managed to overcome his fears and his need for power and control long enough to save Bae and the town in Season 3, because above all else he wanted his son back, and this was the only way to - at the very least - give Bae a positive opinion and positive memory of him.

Arguably that would have been a good place to leave his story, but the way they've developed it is also interesting, because it's easier (in some ways) to die heroically in one moment than to live as a good person over the long term.

When Bae dies bringing him back, Rumple no longer has the motivation of repairing his relationship with his son. There are only two things left in the world that he deeply cares for - power and Belle. He's utterly deprived of power for the second half of Season 3 when Zelena takes control of him. This affects his decision to do something that would always have tempted him: retain both power and his relationship with Belle by using his skills in magic and manipulation to deceive her. Freeing himself from the dagger and leaving Storybrook gives him complete control, both of his own life and of Belle; he doesn't have to fear danger, or fear losing her. Giving into that temptation is entirely in line with his character, especially as his relationship with power/control/magic is presented very much as an addiction - going from "I can give this up for your sake (but won't really)" at the start of Season 4 to "no, it's not a problem; there's nothing wrong with wanting power" in the midseason finale.

This season (well, the show as a whole) has been mediocre, but Belle's rejection and expulsion of him from the town in the midseason finale makes up for a lot. It was perfectly done.

Not all of the villains need to become good. Regina's Heel–Face Turn was well done because she chose to be a good person for its own sake, not for the sake of retaining a person or a relationship she valued. On the contrary, she was willing to let Henry go - and not just let him go, but let him forget her, and remember Emma as a good mother - in order to save Storybrook, a town of people who she mostly didn't like. In contrast, pretty much any time Rumple's sacrificed anything, it's been for the sake of either Bae or Belle.

Rumple himself face his worst fear with his father: that he in the end is just a selfish prick like him who never care about others, consider the way he goes to get back his sons until the point he sacrifice his life, just as he said "Im a villian and we dont have happy endings".

And what happen next? he is back, his son dies and he cant do anything about it while at the same time he become a mind slave of Zelena, if there is any world who describe Rumple right know is bitter, he just dosent care anymore about chaning his way of being.

I think in a way, Rumple the coward but caring father die with Baelfire, and we are dealing with Gold, the one who honor a deal before everything

x4

Yes, the show is a fan of their stupid pointlessly dramatic cliff hangers. But that doesn't mean I can't shake my head when they do them because I know how stupid they are.

x3

Yes and no. I mean, that year was undoubtedly important to their development, but it would be difficult to show a significant portion of that without becoming sidetracked; we'd be sitting around doing nothing but character development instead of plot development. Character Development, good development anyway, should always be integrated with the plot itself.

x2 I can follow the writer's little red string on where they're going with Rumple; he's been pushed back to his lowest low with Bae's death. But, I think the development to this has some red string strangling (I feel Rumple mourning was brushed aside quickly for 'Rumple is evulz now') and, in a meta sense, we've regressed in character here. Regina had the same issue in the first seasons, but in much smaller spouts that lasted an episode so, while annoying, they got better. Rumple had been moving towards good for two and a half seasons and then has suddenly jumped ALL the way back to being the Big Bad. Generally, for a longer running series, you don't really want to suddenly shift a character's alignment from good to EVULZ MAIN VILLAIN unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing.

The main problem is that we, as the audience, have been instructed to care for this character, sympathize with him, and desire his goals to succeed. But, now that he's evil, we're sort of put into an awkward position.

I dispute that Rumple has been a good person for anything other than the first half of Season 3, and even there he was clearly struggling with it a great deal. His actions this season have been consistent with his actions throughout the rest of the show. If he was willing to give up power for love, he wouldn't have brought magic back to Storybrook at the end of Season 1 (an action that was entirely unnecessary and completely impeded his attempts to find his son, which was purportedly his priority).

Rumple did not have any particular interest in being a good person. He wanted his son to see him as a good person. Now even that impetus has been lost.

The main problem is that we, as the audience, have been instructed to care for this character, sympathize with him, and desire his goals to succeed. But, now that he's evil, we're sort of put into an awkward position.

Yes, it's called "drama". Or "tragedy". Inspiring emotional conflict in the audience is something a good story is supposed to do.

edited 28th Dec '14 10:49:54 AM by WarriorEowyn

A major flaw of Rumpel's is that he wants it all. He's the guy that looks at the choice of "Power or Loved One?" and answers "Both!" If he were the hero of the piece, that would probably work out great, but as it is, it's not that simple, and his repeated refusal to sacrifice one for the other ultimately results in losing one or both instead.

Hubris is his villainous flaw, and nothing is ever going to change until he learns that.

edited 28th Dec '14 1:52:12 PM by TobiasDrake

The one time Rumple decided to give up his own life for others, he was brought back against his will and then lost his son.

As I've said before, that was probably the best possible end, not just for Rumple, but for everyone else, what with Pan defeated, and the curse of the Dark One ended with out passing the power on to someone else.

It was a mean ass joke by the writers to bring him back like that.

edited 28th Dec '14 2:24:19 PM by HandsomeRob

It also allowed him to go to his grave without having to make the choice. By sacrificing himself, Rumpel neither a) lost his loved ones nor b) had to live without the power of the Dark One. It's far from an ideal solution and was necessitated by circumstance rather than any desire on Rumpel's part, but still, it works.

And then Bae died bringing back Rumpel because even death will not keep Rumpel from being punished by loss for not making the choice. The plot is very insistent on it.

edited 28th Dec '14 2:52:27 PM by TobiasDrake

It looks like Gold would have to give up nearly all of his power if he wants Belle to take him back willingly.

If not willingly, then when he found a way back to Storybrooke he could just snatch the dagger back from her and scare her into it, but that's never been his style.

It looks like it'll either end by him being a hero and accepting his limitations, or ending a villain and staying miserable forever. Or being killed. But the show is about happy endings for all heroes, and Gold's been too heroic to end out totally evil.

Tobias Drake: well consider what happen to him in the first place, he almost give up his life to stay with his son, and what happen? Milah his wife run away because he was a coward and end in the arm of a pretty bad pirate, for him the lession is clear: power will get you love and without it you only suffer.

In fact, you can call Rumple and asshole, but him giving killian a lesson was pretty awsome of his part

"Yes, it's called "drama". Or "tragedy". Inspiring emotional conflict in the audience is something a good story is supposed to do."

Right, but I don't think Once's writers have the tact to handle that reasonably well here without bollocksing it up. Tragic characters, or at least I've noticed, don't do to well in TV Shows a lot without getting VERY mixed to unpleasant reactions. Considering Once's 'prestigious reputation'... : /

Currently on S1, EP 20.

I've liked the different takes on Pinocchio, Cinderella, Rumpelstiltskin... pretty much everybody. My favorite was the reveal of Sidney the Magic Mirror, and Regina's confidante, that was a gut-punch. Though... can't say I'm a fan of the Storybrooke half of the story.

That magic mirror is full of sh't. Snow White may be the fairest in all the land, but that Evil Queen is fine. I don't think I've ever found dark, evil, and powerful that sexy.

I like how these flashbacks keep spinning a deeper web each time around, though from the way you people are sounding, it's going to suffer some Seasonal Rot. Indeed, I don't really see how this plot continues for 3 more seasons - unless Emma remains oblivious and what fun would that be?

My initial assumption was that the show would tell a story in a different "fairy tale verse" each season, but the Mad Hatter and Wonderland have already appeared.

After about the first or second season, the Snow White story wraps up pretty quickly. Then they bring in new villains and stories to continue the series.

The old characters get a little sidelined, but they usually have some things to still do.

Just watched the second season trailer Blu-Ray trailer and the "behind-the-scenes" promo.

That was f'cking awesome.

Captain Hook sounds like the resident Badass Normal. Which is definitely not the portrayal I got from Disney incarnations. And just... Regina has her power back, Gold's got his dagger, Mulan and Aurora...

-giggle-

Two things have lost me:

• One, I thought the finale was a little anticlimatic, a little rushed. Did Emma suddenly "regain" her memories when she touched the book? They did a quick montage of the Fairy Tale world the moment she touched it - but later, she's talking to Henry as though she doesn't understand the functions of the curse.
  • Yet, knowing what Season 2 will bring - I am teeming with excitement.
• Second, who is the nurse in charge of Belle? When they first showed her, I assumed it was Maleficent. Yet, Maleficent is the one that Regina trapped, the dragon Emma fought. The only other person that nurse reminds me of is Regina's mother, but... I would have thought Regina would've had her killed long ago. And didn't someone point out that if Regina killed her mother, she would become "just as evil" as her? Well, that certainly happened, so I assumed she was dead.

http://tvline.com/2015/02/11/once-upon-a-time-season-4-cast-agnes-bruckner/

"Autumn"...right. Who do you think you're fooling, Lily?

In fact, you can call Rumple an asshole, but him giving killian a lesson was pretty awsome of his part

It was up until the Milah reveal. Then Rumple did some of his vilest stuff ever (murdering Milah for daring to romantically reject him, cutting off Killian's hand in spite, and losing an easy chance to find Baelfire in doing all this, showing that even his love for his son can't trump his need to dominate others and prove himself powerful.)

A major flaw of Rumpel's is that he wants it all. He's the guy that looks at the choice of "Power or Loved One?" and answers "Both!" If he were the hero of the piece, that would probably work out great, but as it is, it's not that simple, and his repeated refusal to sacrifice one for the other ultimately results in losing one or both instead.

I remember laughing out loud when he lectured Regina on how she "can't have both" in 2x17, since it was outrageously hypocritical and clearly only said because he was on the verge of having both at the time and Regina pursuing her feud with Snow could possibly threaten that, so he wanted to dissuade her.

Can't say I'm a fan of the Storybrooke half of the story.

You'll come to miss it soon enough. A lack of the mundane to balance out the magic has become an increasingly big problem with the show, IMO. The fairy tale world just isn't as special when Storybrooke is the same thing but with modern appliances.

edited 12th Feb '15 10:36:42 AM by CharlestonMan

Spoiler Alert, someone caught a freeze-frame bonus in a teaser for the second half of the season.◊

I'm pretty sure some of you guys were hoping for this villain to show up...

Chernabog? Eh. I doubt that's him. Looks more like a generic demon thing on par with Elsa's snowman or that shade thing from Season 2 as a Monster of the Week. If it is him...that's a bit of a disappointment.

I'm just stoked for Cruela. Not even Maleficent or Ursula, just Cruela. Victoria Smurfit looks like she could own that role. Loved Rumple apt description of her "gin and desperation" XD

CHERNABOG! AND BALD MOUNTAIN! Aldo Love Cruela going through the drive through XD

Heh. I must admit I'm enjoying Cruela, though her dress style still seems a bit modern for the Enchanted Forest flashbacks.

And was I the only one who thought Rumple hid in the Trunk? I mean, I guess it doesn't work that way, which is why the plan was so risky for him.

He's incredibly lucky that the Fairies were a dangling plot thread he could latch on to.

Blue just won't stay dead, will she?

So Chernabog does show up? Was he worthy of the Fantasia short? Is he the size of a small mountain? Does he smirk magnificently?

He's a demon that eats the hearts of evil souls/people with the greatest potential for    evil!   

Which is Emma.

I honestly doubt he's dead after traveling over the linke, considering even Rumple wanted to avoid messing with good ol Chernobog. So he might show up and mess things up at some point. Hopefully.

It'd be a waste for him to just end here.

"It was up until the Milah reveal. Then Rumple did some of his vilest stuff ever (murdering Milah for daring to romantically reject him, cutting off Killian's hand in spite, and losing an easy chance to find Baelfire in doing all this, showing that even his love for his son can't trump his need to dominate others and prove himself powerful.)"

I wasnt talking about that moment but the most recient when killian goes all "look a me, im a good bot now you stupid dark one, haha!" and Rumple show him that not, he is still a pirate and in the same boat(haha pun) as him, even rumple tell him it was asshole of his part to threat him just for the sake of him a emma, that thrast taking was awsome.

And well a new villian, let hope to two: that she will be related to henry and two, a BST between cruela and rumple

Maybe Cruella can time travel, hence her modern get-up in the fairy tale flashbacks.

WMG: Snow White, Ursula, and Cruella had a threesome.... What?

I don't know if we'll see him again, but I don't think Chernabog was destroyed either, he was summoned through a ritual and first appeared as black smoke. Since he turned back into it after crossing the town line, I think the summoning was just reversed and he went back to where he came from.

edited 1st Mar '15 10:40:27 PM by CharlestonMan