Death

Oh, indeed. More in general, Everything > Catholic Church.

But that's where we pull the "the last will be the first" gambit, and we end up in top position! It's not a coincidence that, when the Patriarch of Constantinople took for himself the title of "Ecumenical Patriarch", Pope Gregory I answered by taking the title of "Servant of the Servants of God" .*

Returning to the matter at hand: I may agree with you, Aondeug, that humans may not be the most important beings in existence. Don't get me wrong, I think that we are plenty awesome; but there is the whole angelic hierarchy, and there is God of course, and we know very little about what else has been created and what its role is. I don't think that one can order all created beings from the "least awesome" to the "most awesome" in some way that makes any sense. But the point is, humans matter.

Now — on this we are in agreement, I think — the world, as it is now, has a number of aspects that are less than ideal. There is plenty of nifty stuff, obviously; but there is suffering too, and it should not be. Now, if I am not mistaken, the Buddhist solution is along the lines of "As long as you keep seeking the nifty stuff, you will get to experience suffering too. You'd be better off avoiding the one and the other, and escaping the universe altogether."

From my point of view, this connection between nifty stuff and suffering is unwarranted. Seeking nifty stuff does not necessarily lead to suffering, unless you search it through wrongful means or in a wrongful manner. And, on the other hand, as long as the world is messed up you might end up suffering no matter what you do or don't do. And escaping the universe is not something I can accept; rather, I wish to heal it. I am aware that my own abilities, or those of all humankind for that matter, are inadequate for something like that; but this does not preclude the possibility that an entity external to the fallen universe — for example, the creator of all the "nifty stuff" — might decide to lend us a hand. This, I think, is precisely what happened.

edited 4th Oct '11 12:50:37 PM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Re: Order of the Dragon

Their Grandmaster, as chosen by King Sigismund, was Despote Stefan Lazarević of Serbia, one of my favorite Serbian leaders and an example of an ideal knight. The dude was pretty much perfect.

The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.

Yeah that's where a problem is. We don't have a big creator dude who will help us out with things. The problem of God was basically met with "I don't know and doubt I ever will, but I'm happy and Enlightened with one so...". We also don't seem to view the universe as fallen. The universe is what it is and what it is is simply is. It has phases though!

Birth>Expansion/evolution>Stabilization>Dying>Death which then repeats over and over. Our universe as we know is just one life out of many. Our individual human lives are smaller than even a speck. The universe itself is just a speck! Because we haven't gotten into the crazy ass amount of universes in Buddhist cosmology! THAT'S RIGHT. WE HAVE. MULTIVERSES.

And of course humans matter. They're just one tiny part of the web of life though. There are many, many creatures out there that matter as much as we do. We don't have a leg up on them really. Humans somehow being special or chosen by God is rejected by Buddhism. But then we don't have a God concept at all. Our gods that we do have are just sufficiently advanced aliens that are bound by the exact same set of rules as we and everything else is.

Buddhism is Sci-Fi: The Religion.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Scientology

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.

Scientology is just stealing our stuff! FUCK THEM.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

But it was founded by a science fiction author, a popular one. Surely he would have more expertise at what science fiction is. Was Buddhism founded by a science-fiction author, hm?

Hindus beat you to it anyway. Flying chariots with bomb arrows gogogo

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.

Technically speaking Aondeug, would you rather Scientology stole from something else other than the awesomeness of buddhism?

Shut up Tzetze! Don't reveal that we stole everything from Hinduism that was cool!

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Me grandmum's been mad and sliding down the slippery slope for the last three or four years now. At this point, I'm more than ready for her to die. Actually, I kind of wish they'd just let her so my family could stop worrying and grieving about it.

As for me, until recently I wanted to be immortal. I wanted nothing to do with the uncertainty of death and the possibility of an afterlife. At this point, I've just stopped caring about all that. I've decided that making the most out of my life and death is good enough for me.

I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial

Do you have time intervals for which scientific notation barely suffices, like the Jains do? (Or Scientologists do, for that matter)

edited 4th Oct '11 1:03:39 PM by Tzetze

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.

Probably somewhere in the hideous mass of our cosmology. I only know the simple versions which is probably for the best. The moment I saw that there were math problems for Naraka I ran. RAN.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Link?

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.

Church of Madoka = Cult of the Lonely God = Church of the Celestia and Luna = Church of the Many Faced God = Church of Arceus = Church of Safadiism > All other religions!

Madoka died for your sins!

I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial

Well 20xY with y being however long the life prior to your stay in a Cold Naraka is fairly simple but still. That's not the point. The point is there is math in my Buddhist Hell. Hot Narakas each have their own specified length of time that equates to something really fucking huge.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Thank you for telling me this.

Seriously, that's awesome. +1 knowledge!

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

What, no love for the cult of Sol Invictus?*

^{I thought it was cool before Exalted took the name and ran with it, by the way.}

Philosophically oriented, sun worship-based Paganism would be my religion of choice, if for some reason I became convinced that Christianity*

is false.

edited 4th Oct '11 1:15:32 PM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

@KSPAM: No she didn't she ascended to Godhood. She is much more like god than another Jesus allegory...

I already worship a sun god.

edited 4th Oct '11 1:15:57 PM by deathpigeon

Oh. That's not math. That's just scientific notation. Boring.

Indians did lots for math, but didn't bother incorporating it into their religiosity? Laaaaame. I'm going back to trismestigism.

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.

Wow Aon, your version of Hell sounds like a bitch. Kinda why I hope I wasn't wrong in abandoning organized religion...

I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial

THE COLD NARAKAS HAVE MULTIPLICATION THOUGH.

^You have to fuck up very, very, very badly to go there.

edited 4th Oct '11 1:21:17 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Well, not having anything to do beyond multiplication does seem unpleasant...

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.

I have to wonder where these lengths of time come from, however. What sort of progression is

• 1.62 * 10^12
• 1.296 * 10^13
• 1.0368 * 10^14
• 8.2944 *10^14
• 6.63552 * 10^15
• 5.308416 * 10^16
• 4.2467328 * 10^17
• 3.39738624 * 10^18 ?

It sort of looks like something I should be able to recognize...

Perhaps just an exponential growth?

EDIT: Oh, yeah, you just multiply by eight for each step. Easier than I thought. Now the question is just where the first number of the progression comes from...

edited 4th Oct '11 1:26:07 PM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

I'll just bullshit and say it's our fetish for the number 3. It probably isn't but when in doubt blame it on a significant number in Buddhism.

edited 4th Oct '11 1:25:16 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Might be helpful to look at the original texts, since they're more like "A [longwordIcan'tspell] is 9000 [otherwordIcan'tspell], while a [yetanotherstupidagglutinativethingie] is 456 [longwordIcan'tspell]s" and so forth.

Or you could multiply by eight, that's good too

edited 4th Oct '11 1:26:17 PM by Tzetze

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.