What's the appeal of a Downer Ending?

Thread Hop

I have mixed feelings.

Example of feeling that a Downer Ending itself does not have appeal: I think the ending of Memento is extremely bleak. The ending shows that this is a self-imposed hamster wheel of futility, so much that it keeps me from enjoying the rest of the movie. It's a very popular movie, though. I think maybe the appeal is the rest, minus the ending. In this interpretation, no, a DE itself is not appealing, but the rest of the work might be, and that's just how it ends, like it or lump it.

Example of feeling that a Downer Ending itself does have appeal: So many works (almost all of them!) give the audience a happy ending that it's expected and in a way kind of cliche. The appeal of a DE is that it's different. It also may be more realistic.

edited 4th Aug '14 2:19:48 PM by rodneyAnonymous

I have to say that every time I see this sentiment expressed (here or elsewhere), I cringe. What's "cliche" is such a personal thing that it's utterly useless as a means of writing a story. An ending, good or bad, should proceed naturally from the events and themes of a work, not be decided upon just because it's "less cliche". That kind of thinking is how we get things like the Shocking Swerve.

Sad ending are more common on works that are trying to make a point or challenge you intellectually.

1984, Brave New World, Animal Farm, Brazil, The Giver, and other distopian works are not about the ending but about painting a picture of how society could go wrong in an effort to open people's eyes about current political matters. 1984 did an excellent job of that, "Big Brother" and "Orwellian" and "Thought Crime" entered the lexicon as ways to describe societies wrongs. This is more common in works of literature, since a point can be explained better in text, but movies can employ the same means.

Another common theme is pointing out the folly of x or y thing: revenge, pride, etc. Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet were about revenge, Grave of the Fireflies was about the folly of pride. Different versions of King Lear are along this vein as well. Frankenstein was about the folly of playing god.

What I am saying is that tragedy can be an intellectual tool. It does not have to be "fun" by design. Just because something is fictional does not mean its sole purpose must be to entertain.

^^ Being "not cliche" might be only a facet of why a decision to go that direction is made, or a facet of the reason someone likes a work. I agree that it would be silly to do or like something only because it's different. That objection is reducing a perfectly valid opinion into something few would defend and nobody mentioned. A more realistic sentiment is not cringeworthy, I don't think.

edited 4th Aug '14 2:45:51 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Actually, I also tend to cringe at defenses of a Downer Ending as being more "realistic" than a happy ending. Real life is complicated and does not usually neatly break down into "good" or "bad" endings. But that wasn't really the point I was attempting to make, so I didn't bring it up. The thing is that there's been several people in this thread who've said that part of the appeal of a downer ending is that happy endings are "cliche", and while I'm certainly not going to dispute that some people do feel that way, I don't think it's really an objectively defensible argument, especially not from a writer's perspective.

You're saying it's not defensible that it may be part of the appeal?! That is not worth rebutting I don't think :)

PS: I said "a realistic sentiment", i.e. the real reason a given person might like a Downer Ending (which may involve the fact that such a thing is unusual), as opposed to the caricature reason a given person might like a Downer Ending (only because it is unusual) given in #77... not how realistic it is to have that kind of ending.

edited 4th Aug '14 3:45:08 PM by rodneyAnonymous

I just said that I'm aware some people find it part of the appeal. What I object to is treating it as a rational argument in favor of downer endings.

I did legitimately misunderstand the bit about "realistic sentiments", but you yourself said "it may be more realistic" in your original post.

edited 4th Aug '14 4:01:04 PM by nrjxll

I think the clearest difference between a happy ending and a downer ending is in how they relate to the journey or the goal being important. Not necessarily for the characters, but for the story as a whole. A downer ending emphasises everything that leads up to it, while a happy ending has a resolution that emphasises the goal. Not to say it's black and white, but I don't think someone who's in it for the goal would appreciate a downer ending as much as someone who's more interested in the journey.

When it comes to realism, people seem to consider dark, gritty, and cynical stuff above lighter and more optimistic stories.

edited 4th Aug '14 5:16:02 PM by AnotherDuck

For me, it's not so much how it ends, but how the characters got there. I enjoy a good Downer Ending or Bittersweet Ending if the narrative built up to it, or if it was written in a way that made it genuinely good, even if it's dark. That's also why I enjoy Happy Endings; if the story built up to it, and makes it work, that's why I enjoy it.

I don't have a preference, I just want a good story, and the ending is just one part of that.

Yeah I said "not defensible" not "nobody thinks that". (It seems obviously rational to me.) You're repeatedly responding to things I didn't say :)

edited 4th Aug '14 9:21:01 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Er, no. What you said was this:

I explicitly said that I was aware it was part of the appeal for some people. Due to the utter pointlessness of attempting to use whether something's "cliche" as a measure of its quality, however, I object to anyone attempting to present that argument as a good reason for giving a story a Downer Ending.

edited 4th Aug '14 9:23:43 PM by nrjxll

I think about the cliche is that, for many, a happy ending is wind of necessary wesseal, it "JUST" necesary because people are getting so used to it, and is jarring when the writer forced the happy ending

also a downer ending is more focus in flaws or the inhability to do something, this personal endings usually are well done so people like them

But even them, people tend to hate shoot the shaggy dog because it made the entire thing pointless

And yet there are Shoot the Shaggy Dog stories people like, and stories people would've preferred be Shoot the Shaggy Dog.

Another factor is probably the morality of the protagonist. A shining white protagonist is much more likely to reach a happy ending than a grey one. And a Villain Protagonist stands an ever higher chance of getting a Downer Ending, although the ride there was probably spectactular.

All of that ties into what the audience think the characters deserve. If they've been good enough, they deserve their happy ending. If not, they might as well die in a fire and serve as an example of how not to live your life.