Hinduism 101

Note: This topic is for learning

The original reason I made this topic was because it seems like many tropers on this site don't really know about religions others than a slew of Christian sects and whatever Aon mentions about Buddhism. As such, I wanted to use this topic to help people gain awareness of other religions, namely in this case, Hinduism. While here, you are free to discuss various topics related to Hinduism or Hinudism itself but keep in mind, we're are not here to debate the rights, wrongs, or correctness of Hinudism, just learn about it. So, feel free to discuss implications and what not, but make sure to keep it on a leash.

Om

Oh fuck, what am I getting myself into?

Okay, Hinduism is the oldest of today's major religions. Compared to, say, Judaism, it's still ancient and its tendency to stick around has a lot to do with the sheer level of diversity the religion contains. For the record, Vishnu (well, technically Krishna, an avatar of Vishnu), who many Hindus believe to have taken the form of Jesus in one of his many Earthly visits, spends several passages talking about religious tolerance.

Yeap.

Did I mention he rides a totally badass man bird thing?◊

But seriously, a major reason for why Hinduism considers religious tolerance so important is because all other religions can and are a subset of Hinduism, at least within Hinduism. How does this work? We'll get to that later (how much later? Good question.). For now, let's try to cover the bare, bare basics.

Brahman, for the lack of a better way of describing it, can be described by taking every single adjective known to humans and then the rest of them and then sticking a "not" in front of each and every single one.

Hold on! I promise I'm going somewhere with this.

Brahman is basically the first thing in existence, though that might not be the best way to describe it since the manner in which Brahman "exists" is pretty alien our notion of existence (non-existence? un-existence?). What you do need to know is that Brahman, however it works (or doesn't) causes the events of the universe to unfold.

I'm also writing myself into a corner here, let's start with something related to Brahman, the concept of Karma. Thanks to usage evolution, westerners have come to know this to be a sort of bank account of good deeds. In Hinduism, it's actually the cycle of things. Jumping ahead, reincarnation is a major part of karma, such that that animals and plants will move up through the cycle by slowly becoming enlightened over time. You move backwards through the cycle when you fuck up becoming enlightened and by your own stupidity manage to unenlighten yourself in some manner. For example, killing someone will not necessarily screw up your karma. Killing someone for an unnecessary reason and only to bring about destruction will cause you to move backwards.

In this manner, the whole goal is to be constructive with each and every being's means to reaching enlightenment being different. And there are still exceptions, for example, Shiva, Vishnu's chaotic counterpart, has made an art out of destruction. See, here's the problem with the path of enlightenment being different for everyone, one way or another, you'll eventually make it to true enlightenment and become part of Brahman again (more on that later) and Brahman is everything (all adjectives, nouns, and actions) while simultaneously being everything that those things aren't and nothing. Quit trying to rationally wrap your head around that for moment and just realize that means that someone's path to enlightenment isn't necessarily one of being a monk and sitting around attempting to reach the middle path (in which case, I'd point you in the direction of Aon, cause that's Buddhism). Since Brahman is everything (and not) that means every possible path everything can take to enlightenment has been covered. Yeap, even Satan is eventually going to get enlightened within the context of Hinduism.

So basically, if you're to move upwards in Hinduism, a large part of each of your lives will be to figure out what you're supposed to be doing. No, this doesn't mean you're destined to be a homicidal maniac, you'll tend to find that humans are humans because they suck at everything that isn't bunching together and working together.

Ahem, so I was actually going somewhere with this. So karma works several mini-cycles of (hopefully) moving forward in the cycles. Don't worry, you've got a long time to make it through those cycles (for the record, Hinduism has a unit for 2.6 trillion years and this one isn't particularly large by any account). Now, those mini-cycles are a part of a major cycle to returning back to Brahman. See everything, to some extent, comes from and goes back to Brahman. Why? That's going to take plenty more explaining to get to along the way, but the important part is that in Hinduism, everything is on a cycle, because once everything gets back to Brahman, a new cycle will begin, meaning that everything will continue flow once more from Brahman, causing a whole new universe of events to unfold, meaning that in time, Brahman will cover all infinite possibilities.

Welcome to Hinduism, people, shit's trippier and more trollish than Buddhism and I've just covered the tip of the tip of the iceberg. Next time, the concept of prakriti and how some ancient Hindus beat quantum physicists to understanding the concept of matter.

edited 14th Sep '11 12:59:30 PM by Ramus

Represent yo!

edited 10th Jan '13 9:13:39 AM by JosefBugman

@Shinra: Yay, an actual Hindu! Yeah, I'm actually Catholic but have taken some classes around this stuff, so if I get anything wrong or you feel a need to add onto the subject, feel free to add on.

@Josef: Honestly, it depends, there's still a lot of debate going on about the topic. However, what I meant to say is that it's the oldest of the present day major religions.

edited 14th Sep '11 8:53:10 AM by Ramus

edited 10th Jan '13 9:20:00 AM by JosefBugman

Surely one of the many paths to Enlightenment is therefore to avoid enlightenment entirely? Or is not a voluntary thing?

Mini Lesson #1:

There is no conversion in Hinduism, you're already in it.

See, while other religions have a distinctive right and wrong, Hinduism does not. Notice that Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc, all have a list of sins in some form or another. Hinduism, on the whole lacks that. While parts of Hinduism may have sins (such as the parts dedicated to Vishnu), on the whole, there is no actual sin. Thus, you could be moral enemies with some other Hindu and both still be on the path to enlightenment since that person isn't so much of sinning as just following a different route.

As such, there's never really been a need to "convert" other groups of people since, one way or another, they're working on the proper path, regardless of them actually knowing it or not. Because of that, Hinduism has been perfectly happy to sit aside and enjoy itself while taking in everything else that comes along and so has never really traveled like the previously named religions have and thus became associated with its origin place.

On that note, yes, atheism along with other non-religions are a proper subset of Hinduism too.

They do have gods of rebelliousness, so yes. Yes, I'd assume that attempting to wreck up stuff would also be a valid method for some. After all, embodiment of everything and nothing and such. So in a particularly ironic manner, you'll hit enlightenment by trying to avoid it if you wreck things up properly.

edited 14th Sep '11 9:08:25 AM by Ramus

There is a right and wrong, but its told in the prism of one's duty (dharma). You are right if you do your duty, you are wrong if you shirk it. That was (the very very dumbed down and simplified) point that Krishna made to Arjun on the battlefield of Kurukshetra.

The rub of course, is to know what is your duty.

edited 14th Sep '11 9:12:19 AM by FFShinra

Yeah, that's a much better way of explaining, though I guess I'll get more to that when I get down to actual deities. There is some vague notion of duty which you have to carry out from life to life and whether or not that duty changes from life to life depends, but the point is, along that way to enlightenment, you'll have to hit a variety of points and aspects of reality.

edited 14th Sep '11 9:14:52 AM by Ramus

edited 10th Jan '13 9:22:06 AM by JosefBugman

But doesn't that mean they've failed to avoid becoming enlightened?

edited 14th Sep '11 9:15:32 AM by Yej

Cool, thank you for making this thread.

@Yej: Om and mu. I said this religion was trollish didn't I?

@Josef: Simple. You've got a duty during this life right? Do that duty right and the next life you get a nicer spot in society. Shirk that duty and cause problems and you're back further down on the ladder. Of course, that's just the small human part of the cycle but you get the idea. It's only a caste in the sense of a single mortal life. For mortal life to mortal life, think of it as free enterprise and promotion on a slower scale.

Untouchables too will have some sort of duty to fulfill. Chances are, if you're an untouchable, you're on the very, very bottom of the human cycle of cycles. You're either there because you're new and need to work upward or you fucked up pretty badly in a previous life, in which case, it's time to start climbing again.

edited 14th Sep '11 9:29:23 AM by Ramus

edited 10th Jan '13 9:24:43 AM by JosefBugman

I think the iconography, while interesting and beautiful in its own way, does have a tendency to turn people off from other cultures. A skinny bearded guy nailed to a hunk of wood is pretty much universally translatable. Fat smiling guy statue, yeah, that's not too weird either. An elephant-headed god or a blue fanged lady with a skull necklace... that's just wow. Regardless of the actual theology, its presentation just isn't very... marketable, you know?

From an outsider's pov, Buddhism looks like the result that you'd get if you took all the 'marketable' stuff from Hinduism and shed the less 'marketable' stuff. Of course, that is based on a very, very cursory and shallow look at the two from someone who's lived in the Bible Belt his whole life, and I mean no offense (or any Unfortunate Implications) by it.

edited 14th Sep '11 9:30:37 AM by Karkadinn

Josef, I'm not seeing anything that says someone else gets to determine what your duty is. Where are you getting that?

edited 10th Jan '13 9:26:45 AM by JosefBugman

But why are you assuming that someone else decides what that duty is? If it's a cycle, then what your duty is this life is determined by what it was and how well you fulfilled it last time.

edited 10th Jan '13 9:29:13 AM by JosefBugman

Sorry, Josef, but see, no one knows exactly how the system moves people forward or back, but only have a general idea of what should be done. There are never any lost spokes, only circumstances that arise to work out in the grand scheme of things. Now, duty itself tend to be an inherent thing, after all, you felt like there was something you were meant to do or at least something you want to do, right? Chances are, going along that path, someway, somehow, will eventually end causing you to fulfill your duty unless you blow it off.

While you may be born a servant, circumstances will play out to either try to keep you a servant and on the right path or you'll be nudged towards whatever you're actually supposed to do. Again, the path to enlightenment is different for everyone.

edited 10th Jan '13 9:31:14 AM by JosefBugman

Josef, #19: That's... not really an answer. It doesn't address why you say "someone else" gets to decide.

What I understand Ramus and Shinra are saying is that no-one knows what their path is while they're on it. At best, they know what they are supposed to do this time. Like having a long, multi-stage trip to make, and and you don't know what route you need to take to get to the end; you only (maybe) know where you're supposed to end 'this particular leg'.

edited 14th Sep '11 9:50:05 AM by Madrugada

Ah, that's what you're asking. Okay, first off, a lot of the values in the Indian mindset is going to be a hell of a lot different from the western mindset, keep that in mind. Second, there's no denying that people have attempted to abuse this system before. Much like the Catholic Church trying to sell confessions for ludicrous prices, Hinduism has had its fair share of problematic history.

However, at the end of the day, Hinduism isn't necessarily about happiness, it's about enlightenment and that means you do pretty much everything the world has to offer, ranging from being a little single celled organism to being a god. Not every life will be an easy or fun one, some lives are meant to make you do hard labor and use your hands. Other lives may have you doing more mental tasks. The point is, you've experienced them.

So yeah, Karkadinn is right, it's not very "marketable" in that sense, but the thing is, whether or not you believe in Hinduism, you're already "in" it.

edited 10th Jan '13 9:32:52 AM by JosefBugman

Part of the reason that there are so many (many many) sects within Hinduism is that there is a different interpretation and/or proscribed method to figure out said duty among each of them. The caste system was one such interpretation and the one the West hears about all the time was itself just an interpretation.

For example, coming from the South Indian tradition, I can tell you that the caste system there, while it existed, was more of a strait up political tool and not followed seriously in the religious sense (when Nehru made it illegal, South Indian society dropped it like a hot potato, while the same was/is not true of the North). It is unfortunate that it was one of the things that survived the Shankara reforms that started the Hindu Renaissance.