America's image abroad

Span off the 9/11 thread.

I think America's image abroad is pretty bad primarily because the POTUS claims to be the leader of the free world and then props up some unsavoury regimes which oppress the local population.

• Case in point, the September 11th coup in Chile.

Dutch Lesbian

There's also the Eagleland stereotypes. Especially stereotype no. 2.

edited 12th Sep '11 7:50:28 AM by ThatHuman

something

Well it's really just the CIA and military escapades that makes America's image really terrible. Like invading Iraq against the entire world's wishes, then telling us how we're ungrateful for what they did there... making it even more infuriating.

Uh huh, and then when we don't go into Libya, everyone and their grandma whine.

The emotions of others can seem like such well guarded mysteries, people 8egin to 8elieve that's how their own emotions should 8e treated.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't; we're used to it by now.

It's okay. We don't believe the outside world exists anyway.

Please.

Who whined?

Dutch Lesbian

The United Nations.

The emotions of others can seem like such well guarded mysteries, people 8egin to 8elieve that's how their own emotions should 8e treated.

Did they? Damm, I thought the Anglo-French charm offensive worked on them.

Dutch Lesbian

Yeah, it's interesting. When the world asks you to do something and you refuse to do it, they whine. When the world asks you not to do something and you go ahead and do it in spite of that, they whine. Always a lose-lose situation.

This is exactly what I keep hearing from Americans, except that they don't notice that this is what they're saying.

Iraq:

USA: "We're gonna invade Iraq."
UN: "Why?"
USA: "They're building WMDs"
UN: "Prove it."
USA: "Here's a document that proves it."
UN: "Yeah, I saw that. It's fake."
CIA and several other intelligence agencies: "Yeah, it's fake."
USA: "I'm gonna invade anyway!"
UN: "That's illegal."
...

Libya:

Libya: "We could use some help, everybody! Hey, UN, take this formal request!"
UN: "Oh, thanks. I'll see what I can do."
France, UK, USA: "Let's go help them!"
Russia, China: *mumble mumble*
*USA, UK, France carry out operation to help Libya.*
USA: "We're gonna limit our participation somewhat, if that's OK with you guys?"
France, UK: "Oh, well.. Yeah, we can manage."
USA: "Cool." *Stops sending out bombers, intensifies surveillance, aerial refueling and other non-combat operations*
...

Later:

Random American on the Internet: "Yeah, you guys complained to us when we went to Iraq and complained when we didn't go into Libya! What's up with that?"
Me, FacePalming: "You did go to Libya, and we appreciate it. Libya was legal, Iraq was not. We're gonna complain when you commit war crimes. We're gonna appreciate it when you genuinely help the rest of the world. We don't appreciate it when you help yourselves to the rest of the world."

edited 12th Sep '11 1:19:46 PM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

Well, Iraq was violating UN conditions on it anyhow, so we could have used that as the justification. We didn't, though, or at least not openly. We simply shot ourselves in the foot instead.

~shrug~

I hesitate to say that the US image abroad doesn't matter—because it does—but the way to fix it will be rejected by the US Government no matter what because they're trapped in the Cold War. I've long resigned myself to hearing nothing but scorn for my nation from Europeans (and Democrats...). Nothing I can do about it, and frankly I lack the will to care anymore. I suppose, given power, I would change it, but...

I am now known as Flyboy.

I remember reading about some Emperor recently who was great at managing his country. However, the government at hand broke into bitterly divided political groups and their bickering stifled any legislation. But the Emperor persevered and trudged through it. But then after decades of the bullcrap, he gave up, said eff it, retreated into obscurity and the country's improvement instantly disappeared and eventually fell apart by his death.

Weren't there eldritch abominations involved as well?

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'

That might be something that could improve US's image abroad. American soldiers pouring in to fight some Eldritch Abomination.

This isn't helping.

Wow, after he said, society should just let him die, people started cheering even harder.

Not the public's proudest moment, but remember that that's the far right and most of us don't actually want to just leave someone to die. I am starting to hope really hard that they go so far right they actually implode from their own stupidity. Also, that Obama's Jobs plan works out, because that would help our situation.

Actually, free healthcare in any form is economically inefficient. Especially Obama's plan, which quite frankly is crapshot. Making something free will cause that resource to be inefficiently consumed, leading to wasted capital. If healthcare were completely free, it would give people the incentive to act on their fears and go to the hospital every time they get a cough in fear that it might be a cancer (despite the statistical improbability). I'm not a heartless person, and sure I would donate some money for a dying person, but making healthcare free and allowing everyone else whose NOT dying consume healthcare would deprive healthcare from the person that really IS dying. In the words of my favorite economist, Steven D. Levitt:

The problem is any resource managed by the government tends to be inefficiently managed, this is the reason why Communism failed in economics. The same logic can be applied to healthcare: Giving the government monopoly over healthcare will result in said healthcare being inefficiently managed, causing the cost of healthcare given to outweigh the tax money injected into healthcare.

Have you herd of the NHS? It is the British health service and it does a good job.

I’m a lumberjack and I’m ok. I sleep all night and work all day.

Warning, warning Strawman alert. A car is not the same as getting healthcare. Why does each country in the OCED spend less in terms of GDP than the USA despite having socialized healthcare?

Dutch Lesbian

That's one of the most asinine comparisons I've ever heard.

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.

I'm not discussing Obama's healthcare reform in the least here — I am just not knowledgeable about it — but if the alternative is between economic inefficiency and letting people freaking die, I'll take inefficiency any day of the week.

Back to topic, I don't think that the U.S.' image is all that bad, at least over here. Yeah, the whole Iraq invasion thing was wildly illegal and, what's worse, horribly thought out, but people tend to consider that more Bush and the Republican Party's fault than the fault of U.S. citizens or U.S. government as a whole. Apart from that, there is no real dislike towards the U.S.A. — sure, a lot of people over here, me included, consider the death penalty utterly barbaric, but we know that not all U.S. states allow it. And we are so exposed to U.S. culture through the media that it does not really feel all that foreign, anyway.

edited 13th Sep '11 3:50:39 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

The image of America (which was damaged durning Bush's rule) is healing after the Democrats got back in power. It is a slow process but a process of hope.

I’m a lumberjack and I’m ok. I sleep all night and work all day.

There is some truth to that. USA's reputation was absolutely horrible during Bush and many people were happy when he was gone. It doesn't even matter whether Obama is any better or not, people are just glad that he is not Bush. It's silly, I know.

People aren't as awful as the internet makes them out to be.