Dumbing of Age

Are there any other DOA accounts that aren't in the official DOA Twitter group? I was going to add her to my DOA pane in Tweetdeck, but that one is just a subscription to the official group.

(I'm not certain if there's an official Questionable Content character group, but if there is I don't use it because Pintsize would be in it.)

I don't think there were pintsize-things on twitter. He had a blog for those instead.

Yeah, spite is best when the only one who can get burned is you

Well I'm glad Robin finally got what was coming to her. Maybe now she can grow some empathy.

The irony of someone saying that they are glad of bad things happening to people, because empathy is a good thing, is a bit much for me to handle this time of night.

Not really, sometimes people need to have the bad things they inflict on other people happen to them to get the point. I mean I wish that wasn't true, but sometimes to get empathy you must be faced with the consequences you forced on other people.

I just feel vindictive cause Robin of all people has done a lot to deserve this and her portrayal (except for the whole forcing herself in Leslie's house thing) is pretty realistic.

edited 13th May '17 7:12:38 PM by Wildcard

Even if I could handle the whole "hurting people is good because empathy" thing (and it doesn't work any better for me first thing in the morning), quite how Robin is supposed to take that lesson away from this experience is unclear to me. She approached some (very bad) approximation of friendship and helpfulness with Leslie, and it looks likely to wreck her political career; she got somewhat empathetic with Becky, and that is apparently about to be rewarded by Becky getting into her Twitter account and causing chaos.

The obvious conclusion for her to draw from this is "empathising with people who are unlike yourself is disastrous; better to avoid them".

(And, in fact, Leslie is explicitly drawing the conclusion that empathy is a bad idea.)

edited 14th May '17 2:45:27 AM by Spindriver

Expecting Empathy from people who would rule you. A.K.A. government people who consistently show they'll throw you under the bus to get votes. Like Robin, and many people who might want to be your friend but are willing to sacrifice you to get power.

Also Robin didn't provide any real empathy. She undermined Becky's problems at every turn."She got saved by a superhero, she got a job in like a week, and you lied to me she doesn't need this couch tonight she's got an offer to stay with her new girlfriend." and "I'm not gonna be seduced by yer pitiful life story" anyone? Robin was apathetic and selfish, she was going to use her like a prop, just like everything we've seen from Robin would suggest , Becky was just good at hiding how it effected her to take Robin down.

Leslie was the only one showing empathy at all in this situation and to be honest Becky doesn't owe the rep that enables her abusers any. Maybe Robin will learn what it's like to othered because someone doesn't like her sexuality and come back a better person. If not then this Laser-Guided Karma she brought on herself is good enough.

edited 14th May '17 5:10:46 AM by Wildcard

So you don't want her to learn empathy; you just want her to be (metaphorically) punched inthe face.

Fair enough, but "I want her to be punched in the face until she learns empathy" maps pretty well to "The beatings will continue until morale improves."

To the first paragraph no. I hope she gets better but if not I'll just settle for her getting figuratively punched in the face.

It's not good, but it is unfortunate fact that some people need to have bad things happen before they give a shit. Politicians believing in "welfare queens" until they try to live off it in a social experiment and find out how hard it is, or a republican until forcibly outed with a rentboy in an airport bathroom. The "beatings will continue until moral improves" isn't that more about blind obedience? This is about learning not to be a horrible person by facing the consequences you helped force on other people.If every anti-gay politician was forced to live like a LGBT kid lived under their power there wouldn't be any.

The two phrases are both simply obviously incoherent.

Anyway, "empathy" is not what this plotline has been about, except in a negative sense. Its theme is actually the futility of empathy. Robin made what, in a more optimistic comic, might have been some first steps towards empathy, but that went nowhere and now never will; Leslie explicitly concluded that her attempt to promote empathy had been a total failure; and Becky, who'd seemingly been attempting to engage empathetically, has proudly announced that she was just pulling a scam.

Ne'er the twain will meet.

edited 14th May '17 8:30:17 AM by Spindriver

Angry

I don't see why you don't agree, (about it making sense, not whether it's good) it's happen before irl and will happen again. Many people learn best when what goes around comes around. (to put it basically) and she really deserved all of this. Getting what you deserve =/= being angry at the ones who gave it to you and doubling down.

As for the lesson of the storyline, yeah your probably right. Doesn't mean I can't hope for Robin's redemption and enjoy schadenfreude even if Willis likely won't write that. The two aren't mutually exclusive..

Very real. Glad Ruth is willing to do that, and hope she can change it so they both are in a better place.

edited 14th May '17 9:01:26 AM by Wildcard

What a situation to be in, can't really do anything without Howard getting hurt.

Suffering may occasionally bring redemption, though I suspect that possibility is overrated; mostly, suffering just brings suffering. But if you start trying to promote empathy by inflicting pain, then I think you've lost the game before you've even started playing. It's morally moronic, even if it somehow sort-of works once in a while.

(Likewise, continuing the beatings may cause reported morale to improve. Why this (a) works but (b) is useless should be obvious.)

I'd think you were right if we now weren't in a situation were we are constantly shown it works. The mere threat of losing their healthcare from the ACA caused hundreds of people to regret voting for Trump, despite the fact that they didn't care when it's other people's health. The republican politician who was against LGBT rights until he had a gay son,

It works pretty consistently Lots of people are selfish.

Those people are now slowly getting empathy when they realize "That could have been/ and or is now me.

I just don't see anything morally repugnant about not having sympathy for their situations since, once again, they'd do the same to someone else in a heartbeat.

[[(Likewise, continuing the beatings may cause reported morale to improve. Why this (a) works but (b) is useless should be obvious.) ]]

Not an accurate comparison.

edited 14th May '17 11:19:01 AM by Wildcard

But none of that is empathy. It's all just getting people on the right side by threatening their self-interest.

Which is fine. Until we get a global population of saints, we just have to make virtue pay off for as many people as possible. I'm quite happy to be cynical about that. But you used a word with a specific meaning.

I'm saying empathy will result from that though. Not that it is yet. I'm saying self-interest threatening/bad things you, (general term not you in specific) brought on others happening to you can cause empathy in the long term.

If you don't think that it is always true that's fine. But I think we are currently seeing examples of that all over, and we factually have seen that happen.

Maybe some people eventually slip into a different way of thinking after they've been pushed into a different viewpoint by self-interest. Some people certainly discover gaps in their own previous philosophies when their circumstances change. People are complicated. But trying to bully people into empathy is like trying to bribe people into asceticism; it's yanking on the wrong set of levers in the hopes that things will work out in the end.

Certainly, I don't think that many of the people who are kicking themselves because they voted for a guy who promised to repeal healthcare and he's now trying to remove their healthcare are learning altruism; they're just discovering slightly enlightened self-interest. (And from the numbers I've seen, there are remarkably few of them anyway.) Maybe some of them will eventually realise that their actions also hurt other people, And That's Terrible; it'd be nice. It's not particularly guaranteed, though.

""bribe people into asceticism""

Depending on how you view certain religious practices that is a really bad example.

To the rest of your comment though, I'm just not seeing the problem and I'm not being deliberately obtuse. I think even if it starts with selfish motives many people usually gain empathy that way. It's not perfect which is why I had the "maybe now" part.

Back to the comic though, does anyone else see Joyce's parents divorcing years down the line and about 3 years Webcomic Time?.

Kaladar is apparently some rest stop town in Ontario

To me, "bribery" implies material wealth. Religious ascetics anticipate spiritual benefits, not material. (Well, except perhaps for some of the weirdest Prosperity Gospel types, who seem to me to have totally lost the plot, and who aren't really ascetic.)

And I think we have slightly different definitions of empathy. To me, it's a genuine understanding of what other people are feeling, to the point that one almost literally shares their pain. It's not just a vague sense of "bad things happening to other people may be unpleasant to contemplate, and might even happen to me too somewhere down the line".

For those who don't know their webcomic history, the boyfriend is almost certainly a reference to Avalon. The caption text is a reference to Fans!, which I expect more people to get.

I want this worthless fuckhole dead. And I don't care who in the comic kills him.

eyes'r dead again