What's the taboo about using translated titles?

But in the end, they're just gloating on how cool it sounds, especially when there is an English equivalent.

• glares angrily at TV Nihon*

And (we've had this discussion) you are completely missing my point. Of course what TV Nihon does is idiotic, and I've never advocated it.

Please do not act like saying honorifics should be left in is equivalent of TV Nihon's Kisama-tachi Yatsu bullshit. Because it isn't, and claiming it is is the HEIGHT of bad-faith arguments.

I never, not once, said that normal, perfectly translatable words should be left in, I just think that leaving in honorifics is easier on absolutely everyone involved, and is far less likely to lead to translating yourself into a corner.

English just doesn't have that degree of formality, and pretending it does is stupid. I also generally prefer leaving Onee/Onii-san/chan/sama untranslated, just because it looks really dumb to have someone going "Older brother/sister" constantly. And there is no good way of translating "Onee/Onii-sama" that doesn't end up looking completely ridiculous in a sentence. I'd rather have "Onee-sama" Than "Revered Sister".

Like I said though, English is flexible enough to use context. Onee-sama? Simply make the sentence structure more formal or revering, while keeping Sister. But eh, honorifics don't bother me as much as "literal sentence structures" (you know what I mean - let's translate the words but not restructure the sentence to make it flow well!) and "obscure Japanese word of the sentence time!"

There's also the strange case with WORKING!! where the Japanese title is in English, and the English title (WAGNARIA!!) is well, not. :/

edited 6th Sep '11 6:55:38 AM by ThatHuman

I think translating vs localization is a separate issue from translating titles for ease of use.

I don't think there is a taboo per se. I guess it could simply be a matter of consistency or personal preference, whichever one you happen to find first.

re: translation vs localization: I think there is already a thread on it, but I come down in favor of a more literal translation. Of course, some shows lend themselves more to the latter than the former. I prefer the jokes and puns to be left intact.

To get back onto the thread's actual topic, I've just encountered a series where the US-localized title (Shingu Secret Of The Stellar Wars) is significantly better than the original Japanese title (Gakuen Senki Muryo, which translates to something like "Muryo - Tales of the School Wars").

Why ? Because the original title is misleading on several fronts (Muryo, while a major character, isn't the protagonist in any reasonable definition of the term, and the plot doesn't revolve around him ; also, the "wars" don't really take place at school), and the US title is way more accurate (the Shingu mecha is indeed at the center of the plot, and "Stellar Wars" is as good a description of what happens in the series as any).

edited 6th Sep '11 6:59:17 AM by Jhiday

In my experience, Higurashi and Umineko are both known exclusively by their Japanese names while the series as a whole is known exclusively as When They Cry, and individual chapters are known by both the English and Japanese versions.

This is more of an interesting and sort of inexplicable (to my limited knowledge) example I'm contributing than any argument in any particular direction.

edited 6th Sep '11 7:36:44 AM by Noaqiyeum

I think, they are at least partially based on the same core issue: Both title-translations, and localizations in general, have on real goal: to make the work as fluently and naturally understandable, as possible. In both cases, translating nd not translating a certain phrase can both be ways to do that.

In localizations, both directions can work, since some people would rather hear the familiar and meaningful phrase "onee-sama" than a woolseyism that you still have to decode from scratch, no matter how clever it is, it still distracts you to stop and interpret it, while for others, remembering what the originally japanese phrase meant, is much more distracting.

The same with titles: For some, it's distracting to remember a mouthful of meaningless syllables like higurashinonakukoroni, while for others, keeping track of whether it is "When they Cry: Higurashi", or "When Cicadas Cry", or whatever the publishers are calling it nowadays, especially after they already got used to that mouthful, above.

Translators just need to find a balance between the two directions, to capture a reasonable size of their potential audience, without scaring away too many others.

As for honorifics: go on, translate -sensei in Hikaru No Go. You can't. We do not USE the word "teacher" in such circumstances, and any other word that we do use does not carry the same meaning and connotations. It's a pretty darn important detail for Touya Akira's character, ESPECIALLY in the "Journey to the West Cup" special. So... really. Go on, translate -sensei in Hikaru No Go. You can't.

And as for words that seem to be easily translatable but really aren't, try translating "youkai" in Shonen Onmyouji or Nurarihyon No Mago. The word means "supernatural creature" without ANY moral or type connotations. Sometimes you can just replace it with the particular youkai they're talking about, but when you can't, it's a pain in the ass.

I go by whatever title is written on the cover of the original. Seems straightforward to me. Conveniently, many covers have their titles also written in English.

And "To Aru Kagaku no Choudenjinbou" is an incorrect translation that should never be used in any context. The cover itself tells you to pronounce that word as Railgun, so that's how it's pronounced. If someone calls it Choudenjinbou, you should either shoot them or write a complaint letter, because it's just wrong on every count.

edited 6th Sep '11 8:58:43 AM by Clarste

Another odd case: it seems that Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica is more commonly referred to as Puella Magi Madoka Magica, even though "Puella Magi" is grammatically incorrect. Also, non-anime case: people generally use the term "Kamen Rider" instead of "Masked Rider" even though the series logos have the "Masked Rider Whatever" in it. It's kinda moot anyways now, since they stopped putting "Masked" in the series logos since Double (well, Dragon Knight, actually).

About Madoka Magica, it is, again, a case of people using the official name they are more familiar with. "Puella Magi" is part of the official name in Japan. It is right there in the logo. It is not a case of people using the "English" title over the Japanese one because it is both the English and the Japanese titles.

It's a bit of a peeve for me, since "puella magi" is terrible grammar. Also, didn't all the promo material pronounce it as "mahou shoujo"? Does the Japanese text say "mahou shoujo" or Puella Magi? Kamen Rider was that franchise's Japanese title with "Masked Rider" as the Engslih title for about 38 years. Although, I guess people used "kamen" so that they wouldn't have to be extra specific when they refer to Saban's Masked Rider.

edited 6th Sep '11 10:41:19 AM by ThatHuman

The thing is with Madoka Magica is that they do now to translate Magical Girl into latin (one of the soundtrack peices is Sis '''Puella Magica'''. Perhaps they've caught on to there mistake.

Anyway I generally prefer English Titles as they tell me about the probable content of the series, which is the first step for me picking it up. Of course translating Mahou Shoujou has Other problems.

I don't know what the promo uses. But the show itself use both "Puella Magi" and 'Mahou Shoujo". Both are the "official Japanese title". It is just Japan got two titles.

That would be one of the many variations on 'fay' or 'faerie'. The word is used a lot more broadly in folklore than even TV Tropes Wiki generally acknowledges.

It's not a bad translation in the sense of carrying over the broadness of the meaning, but it is bad in the sense of being a word most people don't know the broadness of meaning for. If people can't properly understand the word you're translating it to, then it's a bad translation. It doesn't convey the correct meaning the the average viewer. Might as well leave it in a foreign language, given that that pretty much is a foreign language for the audience.

Right, youkai is one of those words thats going to be context dependant, in many shows, you can just translate it, but in some its best to leave it untranslated to make it clear that in THIS situation, youkai means something very specfic.

Heh, I find it funny though, that Masked Rider is the name used by foreign stations airing the shows.

Also, Bandai makes action figures with "MASKED RIDER" on the packaging, but stores and buyers still refer to them as "Kamen Rider".

By "the show itself", you mean what, exactly? I'm pretty sure Kyubey only ever uses "Mahou Shoujo".

The title screen logo has both Japanese and Latin titles in it. The kanji says "mahou shoujo", while the letters below say "Puella Magi". If I remember correctly.

The title says "puella magi" in roman letters but says "mahou shoujo" in kanji, and it's always pronounced "mahou shoujo" in-series.

NINJAH

edited 7th Sep '11 7:43:16 AM by YamiiDenryuu

So basically, the whole "mahou shoujo" versus "Puella Magi" thing is similar to the "Kamen" or "Masked" Rider thing, right? One is the actual pronunciation in-universe, and also the Japanese text of the logo, while the other is the little English text on the logo, yes?

edited 7th Sep '11 7:53:56 AM by ThatHuman

Well, consider Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood.

It's Japanese title and logo says Hagane no Renkinjutsushi: Fullmetal Alchemist... which is just Fullmetal Alchemist written in two different languages. The anime title is literally Fullmetal Alchemist: Fullmetal Alchemist.

Which is what happens when you combine Japanese and Gratuitous English (or other Gratuitous languages) in a title.

Not really, I think. Using Google, all the logos for "Kamen Rider" use "Kamen", be it on kanji or romaji (roman letters). Meanwhile, the original logo of 'Madoka Magika' has both 'Mahou Shoujo' and 'Puella Magi'.

Yeah, something like that. Which is another example of people using the 'English' title because it is (part of) the original title in the first place.