In need of a dramatic overhaul: The Vodka Is Good But The Meat Is Rotten

Guess what this trope is about from the title, beyond just "bad translation." Go ahead, I'll wait for you.

Now click the link.

The title is problematic, as it doesn't tie into the meaning of the trope beyond simply being about bad translations. In fact, it suggests perhaps issues with machine translation... when it's actually about when characters offer two very different possibilities for what something in a foreign language means.

This has bled into the examples, and a huge number of them belong in other translation tropes like My Hovercraft Is Full of Eels. It also applies to the wicks — I came into it from one that was misusing the trope, though I can't remember what, precisely.

We could just clean up the examples, but the name is still so vague and nonindicative as to be meaningless and useless.

edited 31st Aug '11 8:44:55 PM by Nezumi

How is it different from Translation Train Wreck?

I made a thread about this a while ago, and I still maintain those are bad names. They are both just examples of the tropes as names, with no actual information about the tropes.

The trope is good but the name is rotten.

The difference is that this one is about a character making a weird translation error, whereas Translation Train Wreck is about the work itself being translated abysmally.

I'd say the fact that the name is so bad, it's confusing people in this topic about what the trope is actually about indicates that it should be changed.

Dragon Quest Z: Except it isn't even an example of the trope as a name. My Hovercraft Is Full of Eels is, but this one is about when a character offers two or more different possibilities for the translation that are entirely disparate, and only one of which usually sounds plausible in the context.

It's in the trope description, but virtually nowhere else — most of the examples treat is as "generic example of bad translation", as do most of the wicks, and the post-trope quip.

Twentington: As mentioned above, the difference between this and Translation Train Wreck is that this is about a specific comedy trope regarding translation, while Translation Train Wreck is about things that are badly translated. However, it's impossible to actually tell this short of reading the trope description.

edited 1st Sep '11 1:13:27 PM by Nezumi

As I recall, this one never went through YKTTW.

^ Partly because it's not recently launched.

Yeah, this trope predates YKTTW.

Back when I was studying foreign languages in college (sigh... over a decade ago), this trope name was used to reference when someone in speaking made this kind of error. So the trope name is pre-existing and in use "in the wild." That said, I don't know how much foreign-language-student humor should inform trope names.

Though I'd love to hear a suggested name that makes it clear that this is an In-Universe trope.

Translator Blunder? Names that imply the in-universe nature of the trope are quite difficult to come by.

Either Or Translation? Since that is basically what the trope is about — the somewhat common gag where a character offers multiple entirely disparate possibilities for the translation of something, where usually only one of them sounds remotely plausible.

It's not "There's an in-work example of someone messing up a translation"... which is what the title suggests, most of the examples suggest, and most of the people in this topic seem to be assuming it means, but is not what the actual trope description says.

Now, granted, "horribly mangled in-universe translations" are a valid trope or literary phenomenon, but it's not what this refers to. It refers to a specific form thereof, which is a fairly common gag — perhaps not common enough for a long list of examples, but neither Too Rare To Trope or People Sit On Chairs.

Now, if you're arguing that the trope should refer to "in-universe mangled translation", you may have a point... but that's not the impression I'm getting from these posts.

edited 1st Sep '11 1:12:55 PM by Nezumi

I think it's implicit in the trope description (specifically with the leadoff that it's a comedy trope, which heavily implies done on purpose within a work) that it should be restricted to In-Universe examples; it also could stand to have more clarification between it and My Hovercraft Is Full of Eels (or possibly merged with that - so far as I can tell, the difference is that this trope can be parsed with enough thought, but My Hovercraft Is Full of Eels cannot).

Even if this does remain distinct, I think a tightening of the definition to keep it from being confused with similar tropes and an explicit note of In-Universe is necessary.

I would like to go on record saying that I think this is a great title and we shouldn't change it. It's funny, clever, and provides a notable example.

Now, Alt Titles, those might be of use. Redirects Are Free after all.

32 Footsteps: No, that's not the difference. The difference is that My Hovercraft Is Full of Eels is about garbled attempts at foreign languages, while this trope is about the specific joke where someone tries to translate something, and offers two or more options which are completely different in meaning — in most cases, only one of them even sounds reasonable in context.

It's spelled out in the second paragraph of the description, and I keep mentioning it. It's just that the title, examples, and wicks don't bear it out. I am a little confused why there continue to be these misunderstandings about its meaning.

Boolean Earth: The problem is that it would be a good title for what everyone's taking the trope to mean... but it's utterly disconnected from what the trope actually is according to its description. I still vote for Either Or Translation.

edited 1st Sep '11 1:15:20 PM by Nezumi

Why the misunderstanding? Probably because the page is a giant mess. Taking a careful look, it appears that there was an attempt to turn this into some mockery of a Self-Demonstrating Article that fell flat (either that, or a weak attempt at removing jokes along those lines).

A rewrite of the trope description would go a long way in helping to sort this out.

Everything about the page is a mess. Including the title, wicks, examples, the fact that the description states what the trope is about in the second paragraph, then makes jokes/commentary/links related tropes that seem to contradict that... ugh. I was trying to ignore the other issues as much as possible and focus on the rename, but... yeah. This needs a complete work-over.

Whether you take it to mean what the description says it means in the second paragraph, or what most other things suggest it means, there's actually a trope here, but the page as is has to go — we need to pick one definition and stick with it (possibly setting up a Split for the other definition), then rebuild the page to actually fit that definition.

I can see the logic in focusing on the rename first, but I think the issues are so glaring that we have to repair the trope first. When termites have eaten away at your foundation, you don't start home repair with new outdoor paint job.

I think it's best to make sure that we have all the various definitions covered (I suspect we do), and excising out all of the other parts except to note where sister tropes are. From there, we can clean up examples, and then finally look at the name.

For starters: The oldest version of the page the Internet Archive has (which... only dates to 2008 for some reason, which I think is after the Great Crash, let alone YKTTW).

From what I read in the description, laconically, the trope is:

A character who is supposed to be translating a foreign language and narrows it down to a few completely unrelated possibilities.

Possible rename (a Fairly Odd Parents reference): Either "World Domination", or Something About Bananas

Unwieldy, but it's a start.

Let's bounce it back to the version on the Wayback Machine that Morgan linked to. That's clear, concise, and not a duplication of any of the other translation tropes.

And it may be long, but I like Either "World Domination", or Something About Bananas as a name. It scores points on both Clear and Amusing (a subset of Witty). It's also relatively concise, considering that the trope is not a simple one to encapsulate.

Either "World Domination", or Something About Bananas is actually probably the clearest title that I've heard suggested and the only one that can't be confused with a dozen other tropes.

Let's bounce back the definition to before people tried to play Chinese telephone with it and things should clear up.

That suggestion doesn't imply a translation though. Plus I think we can get the key points of this trope in fewer words.

If you think you can get all the key points (which would be "Something said in another language" + "is translated" + "into two or more possibilities that are completely unrelated"), in a shorter name, in a way that won't be confused with any of the other translation tropes, let's hear your ideas.

Another vote for Either "World Domination", or Something About Bananas.

Like World Domination And Bananas.

Multiple Choice Translation?