Venezuela and the Chavez Legacy

Sounds like FDR.

To be fair the one thing US got right was the checks and balances between powers. US leaders are expected to hand over their seats to whoever wins the election when their terms end.

^ It helps that the loser in US elections doesn't get arrested (or outright executed) by the winner. That's why for all the noise about putting the departing POTUS on trial after they leave (said noise happened at the end of Bill Clinton's 2nd term, IIRC, and definitely happened at the end of Bush Jr's 2nd term), nothing ever comes of it.

I wonder how much is the inflation going to rise this year? It's worse than I thought so far.

The Simadi may have been a good idea if it really satisfied the supply and demand but it doesn't even satisfy 2% of it. So we can only sink from now on. It gives me the creeps...

The MUD's primaries will only have 43 representatives, I think It's a dumb move from the MUD. The primaries could be a useful tool to win support in different locations but they aren't taking advantage of it. The more representatives the better.

This is the kind of thing that creates more division and apathy. God they never learn.

For Chavism, anyone who doesn't think the same way as they do is a fascist criminal. For the MUD anyone who doesn't think the same way they do is a crazy radical.

They compliment each other!

edited 5th Mar '15 11:52:31 AM by HibikiOni

Black Market dollar is now 260... Damn, I never expected it would rise that much.

It will continue to rise... An old friend of mine was in Argentina during El Corralito and he says the best part hasn't even started. I don't think anybody can predict what will happen next anymore.

I think this◊ describes it the best.

edited 6th Mar '15 7:42:51 AM by HibikiOni

About why populism is on the rise, I'll just quote a blogger I quite like:

Personally, I would say that there's a lot of people who don't know what it means to be free. Perhaps because of cultural restrictions and discrimination. Plus if you add the economic problems a country can face which can only limit the freedom of the people. The idea of a leader who can represent the desires of the masses becomes very convenient.

In a way Latin América is a perfect place for this to happen.

It's not so much the idea of having a populist government I hate but I can't forgive the irresponsability of the people for willingly desiring blood-thirsty dictators to punish the other side (because they themselves are somehow perfect) and when they don't like him anymore they replace him with someone else.

Even today I know there's a lot of people in Venezuela who long for dictatorships. (Up, down, left or right) Is the responsibility of being free too great for us to handle?

edited 7th Mar '15 3:11:23 PM by HibikiOni

This is why I hate discussing against self proclaimed leftists.

You can't criticize their policies without being immediately being branded. It gets hard to criticize leftists leaders and policies because that, in the eyes of their supporters, automatically mean you defend opposing practices that "harm the people" instead of focusing on the arguments.

Like the faulty notion that if you criticize Chavez means you are a counter revolutionary poor people hating oppressor. Same with being skeptical or critical of leftists policies because they have a historical precedent of ruining entire economies and indoctrinating their population into accepting horrors in the name of the revolution.

I hate how many times I have to veer into arguing that, opposing a leftist leader does not mean I'm an oppressor wanting to keep the poor under the elite's thumb or opposing a leftist policy does not mean I want to keep the people poor.

Assumedly they don't say they want a dictator in charge - they say want an uncompromising strongman who will crack down on crime, unify their nation and defend them against the hostile outsiders and internal traitors?

edited 7th Mar '15 4:05:00 PM by betaalpha

Of course, there are people that say someone who uses force is "needed" which is plausible. But yeah, there are people who do want dictators in charge. "We need a insert caudillo name here."

In a Republic, no one can be above the law, not even the goverment. Which can easily become the worst enemy of the people. The people who think only dictatorships can be iron-handed are being ignorant.

The best example we have is Bettancourt. Beating both Radical Left and Radical Right.

edited 7th Mar '15 4:45:50 PM by HibikiOni

He kinda had to break a few laws to crack down on them, tho. Still the end justified the means.

I disagree (am I sounding repetitive?) about people wanting dictators, they're there but they're a minority, instead lots of people wanting to get back at the previous government(s) without giving too much thought about possible consequences.

About populism, here's this◊ chart of ugo chabes' public spending vs. popularity.

Today I dreamt the MUD held primaries and about 60% of the electorate assisted.

edited 8th Mar '15 4:56:33 AM by Stormtroper

Well I don't know. Maybe I'm just being resentful for people choosing Chávez so irresponsably.

I'll vote but I'm really worried the MUD will screw up again in this elections.

Do you think the government will pay it's debt this 16? or the country will fall in default?

edited 8th Mar '15 2:33:10 PM by HibikiOni

I'll vote, too. I'm not holding my breath that it'll change much, but a vote against the reds makes their job a little bit harder.

Dunno about the default.

Ok what the fuck is going on in Venezuela? Obama just gave ammunition to Maduro by calling his government a "threat to stability" and now Maduro is calling for special powers. What the fuck is he going to demand now, Green Lantern's ring? Why did obama go crazy over that? What the hell is going on there?

Over here? nothing. Just the government seeing ghosts everywhere. Obama is a communist.

Ok so, UNT wants to postulate Manuel Rosales for the National Assembly.

Manuel Rosales...

For the National Assembly...

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

edited 10th Mar '15 2:31:37 PM by HibikiOni

Well yeah but with Obama actually saying and putting up some sort of blockade on Maduro aren't other people freaking out orsomething more than usual or is it something common now?

Cuz' Obama saying something like that is truly unprecedented.

I'm not that worried, maybe under normal circumstances with Chavez this would be a huge deal. But most chavists can't handle Maduro anymore and are honestly tired. The government is taking advantage of it saying that the USA is going to invade us and all that but if things don't get better Maduro's popularity won't rise. Specially against other opposition leaders.

Tenia mis sospechas pero estoy seguro que Obama es un comunista ahora.

Para tomar la desicion de Cuba por ejemplo, en una democracia aunque el tenga toda la autoridad... para tomar una desicion de esa escala el primero tiene que hablar con los lideres del congreso para que luego del sano debate que ahora propone Barack Hussein, tomar acciones que beneficien mas a ambas naciones. El piensa que el no nesecita el congreso para gobernar... Eso se llama dictadura.

Por eso el que piense que Cuba dejara de ser socialista es un soberano pendejo.

edited 10th Mar '15 3:13:24 PM by HibikiOni

Creo que hay una falsa equivalencia ahí — incluso si Obama fuese un dictador, lo que dudo (aunque no sé lo suficiente de política interna estadounidense para comentar la legalidad de declarar unilateralmente las políticas para con otro país), el ser un dictador no lo haría comunista, necesariamnente. Créeme, soy chileno.

Estaria de acuerdo contigo normalmente, un presidente estadounidense no puede pertenecer a ningun partido comunista. El partido democrata tiene tendencias socialistas pero hasta hay llega. Pero dejame decirte que sus acciones hablan mas alto que sus palabras.

Obama Care por ejemplo, quitarle al rico para darle al pobre. Hmmm... eliminar clases sociales... Hmmm... ¿A que te suena eso?

Ese negrito coño e mae se la tira de alzado y ahora le tocara afrontar las consecuencias de su atrevimiento. Los lideres del congreso americano (republicanos de derecha) le van a dar una tremenda coñiza. Comunista y dictador.

Anyway, leaving that aside the opposition seems to reject the hostility of USA, I think they are doing the right thing because having anyone interfere right now just gives more oxigen to the government. Although if Maduro goes violent enough our only hope at that point would be having someone else to interfere.

edited 10th Mar '15 5:11:40 PM by HibikiOni

Is it possible that Obama thinks that the Venezuelan public is sufficiently dissatisfied with Maduro to the point of agreeing with him? Because this is alarming, to say the least. Obama is not the type to throw statements like that lightly.

(Y eso de Obama ser comunista... Hablas en serio?)

Obama todavia no ha expropiado nada (que yo sepa) ni habla de la suprema felicidad social contra la burguesia parasitaria, o que a la prensa le llego su hora. Tiene su izquierdismo y no se si sea buen o mal presidente, pero de ahí a que sea comunista/dictador hay mucho trecho.

I think the sanctions are a good thing. Nobody gives a bleep about their US bank accounts, and it'd make them think twice about violating human rights.

English please...

Google translator is retarded and my portuguese-spanish interchangeability can only be pushed so far.

Are we crapping on Obama now he finally bothers to actually do something about Venezuela? What the hell?

You know what actually bothers me? The other leaders of the area, even those who really should know better, rushing to side up with Plátano Maduro. They are just exerting their Mutual Support Club credentials, not actually caring a shit about the Venezuela people themselves. They keep on harping about dialogue with Plátano Maduro even after all the times Chavism has shown it'll just use dialogue as another tool to take advantage and subjugate their interlocutors. Shame on you, guys, you aren't actually folling anyone anymore.

Ese negrito coño e mae se la tira de alzado y ahora le tocara afrontar las consecuencias de su atrevimiento. Los lideres del congreso americano (republicanos de derecha) le van a dar una tremenda coñiza. Comunista y dictador.

Ay, please. If the Republicans were in the government right now, they'd have done this long ago.

edited 10th Mar '15 6:44:18 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

Wait, you speak Portuguese or Spanish, by any chance? Fluent or native?

I can say I learned more Spanish through here than I ever learned in the rest of my life. Too bad there are a couple of words that still escape me.

Anyway, Obama's statements are unusual (and diplomatically a bit too blunt), but not in the wrong per se.