US Bases in Europe

Creating this before the thumps come in en-masse.

I say we should pull out, but still help out if they genuinely need it, although I can't see any credible way Europe is going to be invaded anymore.

Leave the continent flapping in the breeze. If the Russians want the place they can have it, we'll just go home.

Pull them. Europe doesn't want us, Europe doesn't like us, the US doesn't like Europe anymore, and we can't afford it. The only country even worth helping in Europe for the US (i.e. one that actually likes us) is Britain anyhow. The Chinese or Russians want to march to Paris, they can be my guest. It isn't worth the money, the effort, and the economic strain anymore.

&

Yes WWIII is a great thing to happen to the nation because of your petty tantrums.

Also Russia and China will not realistically invade. It would destroy their country from the inside. And China very much loves the status quo right now.

edited 7th Aug '11 12:13:57 PM by Thorn14

Poland, the Baltic states, and the other Eastern Europeans helped you in Iraq. You going to abandon them to the Russians for it?

Its not just the Brits you owe now! Sure, hang the other western powers, but don't throw smaller powers to the winds over it!

^^ It wouldn't be WWIII. The Commonwealth nations like India aren't going to rush to Britain's aid in the event of a war on European soil. They have their own problems anymore.

The Chinese won't help them either. If we don't go, that leaves a very localized conflict. The European states no longer span the globe.

^ The western Euros ruined it for everyone. I'd rather be friends with the Poles and Ukrainians but the French, Brits, Germans and Nordics ruined it.

edited 7th Aug '11 12:16:23 PM by MajorTom

I really don't get why we're in Europe at all. I thought they were trying to be all peaceful and shit. And everyone knows that WWIII will be between Pakistan and India, not Russia vs. Europe.

What did Britain do? We've been on your side in every conflict bar Vietnam!

edited 7th Aug '11 12:17:13 PM by GameChainsaw

Why would Russia invade Europe? They can hardly manage the former soviet republics, and different east bloc countries that don't like being on a leash. I think you watched Red Dawn a few too many times, Tom.

Anyway, as I stated in the other thread, the reason Europeans don't like the US is largely because during the cold war, the whole region was contantly under the threat of World War Three every time United States or Soviet Union flexed their muscles. There were troops, tanks, planes and missiles on both sides ready to be deployed at any minute. Americans went to panic about a base in Cuba (despite having their own missiles in Turkey, at an equivalent distance to Moscow), which seemed odd to Europeans, we had to live with missiles every day.

And this was right after the most devastating land war in European history. Even with the rubble cleared, there were still a lot of people who had lived through the war, had parents who lived through the war, and had learned the price of it very dearly. US only had Pearl Harbour, and that was a military base. Europe had lived through six years of constant destruction of civillian targets (and populations).

@Tom Doesn't change the fact there is zero reason for Russia to invade. We live in a different era now.

Also what did Europe do thats so horrible? Not go into Iraq, because they had the foresight to see it was a stupid idea? HOW HORRIFYING.

@Game

Apparently you either become our obedient yes men who agrees with everything we say, or you're against us.

edited 7th Aug '11 12:17:47 PM by Thorn14

I don't hear them standing up to the Western Powers over it, and frankly, I honestly don't think we can afford it anymore, ethics aside. I'd shift the aid from France and Germany to them if I could, though. They need it more anyhow.

Edit: Jethro, you act like if the US had said fuck it and left Europe alone, the Soviets would have just sat on their hands and done the same. Fat chance. The US is the only reason the Soviets didn't keep going past Berlin and take over all of Europe after World War Two. And it still almost came to war. Look up Operation Unthinkable.

edited 7th Aug '11 12:20:36 PM by USAF713

To take what Jethro is saying seriously for a second, yes, the US can seem like a bloody loose cannon sometimes.

Its not so much hatred as fear. We're terrified of what some hotheaded US president is going to drag us off into next.

Backstab us at every opportunity on the political arena. They may have sent troops, but they ultimately proved less helpful and far less useful than they know they can be.

Case in point, they fled from Basra leaving it to the Mahdi Army just when the US finally pacified Anbar and got on the Iraqis good side. Then we along with the Iraqis (mostly them, we were support in the operation) had to go in and flush the Mahdi Army out.

(grits teeth.)

If you mean we finally pulled out, we stood our ground in that damn quagmire for years.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. The Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008 proved that truly nothing has changed in this world.

Oh no, Britain saw how stupid the Iraq War was and pulled out.

Its our war, not theirs, they were under no obligation to stick it through completely.

Georgia isn't Germany or any other major Europe country.

edited 7th Aug '11 12:22:02 PM by Thorn14

Of course, the rules of Cold War are not at play anymore. Repeat after me: Russia has no reason to invade Europe. Is that so hard to understand? They have enough mess in their own country and neighbours.

Hell, they didn't have a reason to invade during the cold war — their army was half the size of NATO (read, US) forces, and they had been through the more devastating part of WWII, it's not like they were itching to see more of their men killed.

Way too expensive to send thousands upon thousands of tanks (and all the logistic nightmare behind them) to face armies specifically trained and equipped to break tank assault waves during all the Cold War (and with a country that has a specific first use policy for nukes if invaded). And why should Putin attack his customers?

And could someone explain how China would manage to military invade Europe? By asking Russia to help them with the heavy lifting, or by crossing India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and Turkey?

So, yeah, we're quite safe now, IMHO.

@Tom: yep, we ruined it for everyone, sure, because our governments didn't follow up on Blatant Lies from Bush Jr.? When you were attacked, we sent reinforcements (Afghanistan). When you did an Ass Pull, we said "Get Lost". We're allies, not lapdogs, you know. ^_^

edited 7th Aug '11 12:24:52 PM by RufusShinra

[Nvm]

edited 7th Aug '11 12:23:48 PM by Yej

And in the India-Pakistan conflict, the US will take the side of Pakistan and the UK will take the side of India. And it will be a fuckfest.

Somebody doesn't know about the region of the Ukraine that geopolitically is no different than the situation in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. It's also right next to the Black Sea Fleet base at Sevastopol.

Given the actions the Russians did over South Ossetia, it's plausible to find a reason in at least that.

That was in Caucasus. Which, to be polite, no-one cares about. Caucasian countries are a nuisance to Russia, the Euroopean countries are business.

And while I don't condone the actions in Georgia, the invasion happened because Georgia attacked S Outh-Ossetia, a region that declared independance, with equally valid basis as Kosovo from Serbia. And in case you didn't know, Russia is not currently occupying Georgia. They had a scruple, which was never even an official war.

We'll just sit back and watch the overpopulation pressure get reduced in a series of flash, while hoping they have the courtesy to keep it to themselves.

The USSR is long gone. Time to pull the bases. If they want a military they can make it themselves.