Are opinions bad?

You know, I've noticed something. When people violently dislike a work I like, I tend to try and tell them how they're wrong.

I really can't enjoy a work very well if there are actually valid reasons to dislike it. If a person points out numerous reasons that I shouldn't enjoy said work, I don't enjoy it.

The only way to prevent this is to dismiss their opinions and continue enjoying the work. Sometimes this doesn't work.

For example, Busy Street ruined The Nostalgia Critic for me, and I really just want to see them die.

Seriously, though, I'm starting to understand TV Tropes' recent anti-negativity policy. People are entitled to disliking a work I like, and they are entitled to voice said dislike. Giving the reasons for said dislike though, is going to far and should only be done for works I haven't seen.

This is generally why I think people shouldn't bring up their opinions of a work on discussion threads. They are allowed to bring up their opinions on minor points, but calling the work as a whole good or bad is something they shouldn't do if they're going to discuss why they hold that opinion.

I personally think that debate is rather pointless, because, even if you do change someone else's mind, unless it was a weakly held opinion, they will hate you for it.

That's why I think opinions might not be as good as people think. Opinions are fun to have, but they are also the cause of every single conflict in the history of mankind. I'm certainly not against free will, but it certainly would be better if we did things completely objectively.

This is, of course, just my opinion on the matter.

edited 6th Aug '11 12:22:12 AM by Zennistrad

My liking of a work doesn't go down when I learn that someone dislikes the thing. If anything my love for it is bolstered and I gain a desire to discuss the matter with them. Not to debate or to attempt to change their mind, but just to see what they think about it and why and to share my own opinion. Because I have some sort of fetishistic obsession with learning what other people think and why even if I don't really do anything with that information other than go "Well that's neat" and file it away in my creepy stalker mental folder.

As such...bring the opinions, baby. I wanna know how you think, what you think, why you think, and how it affects you.

edited 6th Aug '11 12:19:55 AM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Yeah, that's the thing about opinions; we all tend to have one.

Course, if everyone thought the same way, or did things only in an objective manner, I don't think we'd get much done. Yes, the objective way is often necessary, but not in every single decision.

Anyway, opinions are a pretty neutral thing; they're not bad in the way that you're thinking they are. It's not a bad thing to have them. You can express them in a bad way, have a bad opinion about something. Even have a gravely mistaken opinion. IN and of themselves, they're ideas. And if we never had ideas we wouldn't have any of the cool stuff we have today. Like plains, and land gliders. Or chocolate cake.

So yeah, not bad in the way you're thinking. IN the way you're thinking, pretty neutral.

Hmm. I just realized something.

Opinions are always formed because humans have limits to their perception. Because of this, it is impossible to have a population of individuals greater than one and not have differences in perception.

The only way to have people not have opinions, or even to have everyone have the same opinion, is to either through a Hive Mind or through giving everyone limitless perception of the moment, which is very nearly omniscience.

Wow, a community dedicated solely to bashing internet critics who abuse the shit out of this trope? I hope they're as appreciative of the irony as I am.

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt." - Some guy with a snazzy hat.

Sometimes hatedoms do 'ruin' a work for me, but I'm not sure if maybe they were actually right and they just pointed out problems that I hadn't noticed yet, and I would have been equally annoyed by if I had.

For example, I loved Eragon, and Eldest, but then I discovered such sites as Antishurtugal and Impish Idea, and now the purple prose is so very obvious to me that I could barely make it through Brisingr.

Be not afraid...

Having re-read your post, I have to wonder what the point of a discussion thread is if you're not going to discuss whether or not and why you thought a particular work was good or bad. By saying we shouldn't do that, you've just taken out just about everything we can discuss about media. Also, saying we can only discuss negatively works you haven't seen yet is massively stupid. Isn't that just kind of tailoring the discussions just to you?

Seriously though, there's no problem with having different opinions so long as the people having the discussion can keep it civil. And quite a few people manage to do that.

Bit extreme. O_O

I do know what you mean though, about negative opinions lessening your enjoyment of something. Like, I used to think Harry Potter was absolutely perfect and I was really into it. Then other people pointed out the flaws it had and that whole thing was just kind of soured. I think it's because there's a part of me that hates - I mean, really hates - things that aren't absolutely perfect. Like, they become damaged. As though scratch on the surface renders something useless.

I think I've kinda gotten better about that, though, and I think the trick is to sort of detach yourself from everything, and don't ever allow yourself to love it too much. If you can see when the things you like have flaws, you won't be bothered when other people point those flaws out to you.

The former wouldn't stop us having opinions, it would just mean we all shared the same opinion.

If we were all actually omniscient, maybe we wouldn't have opinions, but that would imply there was an objective, universally-applicable standard for good and bad, which isn't a given.

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff

Ripping on people who rip on movies? I think that by this point you reach this sort of meta criticism where the Internet eatself and you find yourself no longer capable of giving a dam

hashtagsarestupid

Yes, your opinion is bad and you should feel bad. Now shut up and bury yourself in a hole.

Of course, this is just my opinion :P

You just have to understand something: people use different standards to judge a work.

Fight smart, not fair.

If an opinion is presented as a fact, that is bad. If a fact is insisted to be an opinion, that is bad. If a theory is treated as being equivalent to opinion, rather than its own third category, that is also bad.

That is to say, not all opinions are equal, and a failure to recognize that, is bad. And that's a fact.

Yeah, my opinion on opinions is pretty much "opinions suck". I have a low opinion on myself too. Perhaps this is why a I don't admit to liking any shows except for Madoka Magica.

edited 6th Aug '11 12:57:08 PM by ThatHuman

something

I think that people need to get over themselves. A work doesn't have to be perfect to be enjoyable, and reacting violently to someone else's take on it is just stupid.

As an example, I listen to the cheesiest music in existence. Hearing people bitch about my taste in music is more likely to make me go "cool story bro" than to go "OMG You're right! My music sucks and I should hate it forever!"

As another example, I can't count the number of flame wars that have started when I say "I hate anime" and the Fan Dumb can't handle it.

In summary, opinions are okay, it's just that people are stupid.

edited 6th Aug '11 1:37:07 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Sounds like Hate Dumb (the opposite of Fan Dumb). Hate Dumb vs Fan Dumb equals Flame War.

Dumbness shouldn't condmemn opinions per se.

The Only Righteous Index of Fanatics! has some tropes that go into play sometimes too.

edited 6th Aug '11 1:49:54 PM by secretist

TU NE CEDE MALIS CLASS OF 1971

... Isn't that kind of like saying "I hate television"?

Anyway, I am of the firm opinion that everyone else's opinions are bad.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

Well, it's not like saying "I hate Shakespeare". I mean, just because I don't enjoy the feeling of being lobotomized is no excuse to start flame wars.

Fight smart, not fair.

Opinions themselves don't bother me. It's people being overzealous in making damn sure everyone knows them, such as butting into every single tangentially related topic to fan/hate-wank like a broken fucking record.

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt." - Some guy with a snazzy hat.

I know that, rationally speaking. But there's still a part of me that hates works that I thought were perfect but turned out not to be. It's not really something I can help and I don't really blame anyone else for it, it's just a thing that happens. Somebody bashes a work I like and suddenly it sucks, and I just can't enjoy it like I used to.

Not so much nowadays, though. But yeah.

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff

YOU CAN WORK ON IT BY BRAINWASHING YOURSELF WITH THE POWER OF MIND TRAINING WHICH IS JUST A FANCY WAY OF SAYING CBT LIKE THINGS.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Actually, most of the works that happened with I managed to like them again by coming back to them after a long time. Except Bleach, because that got worse since I stopped paying attention.

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff

SEE. YOUR MIND IS YOUR BITCH.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Then how did you enjoy it in the first place?

Fight smart, not fair.

Because it was perfect and awesome and flawless and basically the best thing since [previous obsession].

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff

The point of you consuming the work is the joy it brought you, yes? Why does the level of joy/hate it inspires in others matter?

Fight smart, not fair.