Marvel Cinematic Universe

Trailer. SO GREAT. This is so, so exciting.

Oh wow, Black Panther looks amazing! Honestly, I don't care if they save Spider-man for the credit scene, all I wanted in the trailer was like a flash of red or something.

Thinking about red, Bucky and Steve giving it to Tony? Not that I dislike Iron-Man, but it's pretty great.

Crow: There's a plot?

Saw the trailer last night. I was like "Whoa, what?!" when I saw the embedded video and part of me thought it was fan made.

Holy crap, was I wrong. I'm gonna have to watch it again to catch Black Panther though.

Also, they're totally doing that thing they did where they're like "oh, 'so and so' is in this movie," but they don't actually show 'so and so'. They did it with The Vision in Age of Ultron and now they're doing it with Spider-Man and I'm like "ok, maybe the next one will have Spidey."

Here are the Civil War posters.

MCU has jumped the shark for me. The entire set up to Civil War feels engineered and phony.

Tony goes from "the government can't have my tech" libertarian mindset in Iron Man 2 to being pro registration in this for no good reason other than so they can have him oppose Cap and line up with the stance Tony took in the original comic.

None of the heroes have any reason to be pro-registration because, unlike in the comic, SHIELD no longer exists. The pro-registration side leaders in the comic trusted SHIELD since most of them had long established relationships working for it anyways. But in the movie universe, SHIELD no longer exists and was shown to have been compromised by Hydra. Nobody, save Window and maybe Hawkeye, would have any reason to side pro-registration.

You can't replicate, or even approximate the storyline because the politics, personalities and circumstances aren't the same in the MCU and don't allow for it to make sense.

Did you even watch the trailer?

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There is no registration. None. Hell, there are rarely any secret identities (the only one I know about is Daredevil). The thing in the movie is called the "Sokovia Accords."

Also, it's pretty obvious from the trailer that the entire conflict revolves around Bucky and what he did or what he was framed to have done.

I think there, um, might have been a killer robot involved...

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.

They don't want to replicate the story, they want to take an idea and wrote their own version of it. And so far...I like this version better. The discussion about secret identities seem shallow to me compared to the question under which rules Superheroes should operate. I love that it's not some unexperienced superhero group which messed up, but the Avengers themselves (above all Tony). And the best thing is that it is not just about abstract ideas, it is about Bucky. This gives the whole thing a human element.

Plus, it is a good way to make both sites right. Tony will be right on the principle that rules are usually a good thing. Steve will be right that humanity will always be more important than rules.

Yes, I did see the trailer. That's what prompted the post. I don't care if Tony got a beatdown from Cap and Bucky; he's the most anti-authority of all of the Avengers. He would never have agreed to go after them in the first place on the government's behest, let alone become a pro-registration poster boy because they resisted. So unless we're going to find out in Avengers 3 that Tony is being mind-controlled by Ultron, I'm calling shenanigans.

edited 25th Nov '15 10:01:55 AM by CitizenH

"Tony goes from "the government can't have my tech" libertarian mindset in Iron Man 2 to being pro registration in this for no good reason"

You know, I think this misunderstanding is part of why I tend to dislike Tony.

The thing is, Tony is big about the government not interfering with his stuff. That doesn't really mean he has an overall opposition to the government or himself interfering with other people. This is the same guy who talked about (hope I'm quoting this correctly) building an Iron Shield around the world as part of his goal of privatizing world peace.

It makes sense because the only part of government that libertarians tend to support is the military.

Like I think people have this weird idea that because he's liberal, it would only make sense for Cap to be on the pro-Reg side.

And yeah, outside of the politics, that too. Tony's "job" is stopping supervillains. He thinks Bucky has committed an act of supervillainy. Ergo, it's in his wheelhouse to capture or neutralize him.

Edit- Although, the trailer does show a piece of legislation too and I would figure that Iron Man is also in supportive of it (outside of the Bucky specific issue). Not as sure about what Cap's position is before it became personal.

edited 25th Nov '15 10:06:50 AM by Hodor2

From the trailer, Tony's clearly there to bring the Winter Soldier in for his crimes committed, accused, or both. Flying around the world fighting super-criminals is kind of what he does.

Tony and Steve aren't fighting about a piece of paper or a legislation. They're fighting about Bucky, because Tony wants to arrest him and Cap wants Tony to not do that.

edited 25th Nov '15 10:05:26 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

He kinda was, until he almost got the human race exterminated. That has to count, right?

edited 25th Nov '15 10:04:52 AM by Julep

I'm chalking Tony being Pro-Reg here because of how he screwed up with Ultron.

I don't want to say that Tony has always been about controlling people, since that sounds too Ron the Death Eater and is unfair to his character.

But I've always read him as being more opposed to the government stealing his stuff than having an overall libertarian opposition to government interference with civil liberties, especially if he himself has a role in leading that government interference. I mean that's kind of the whole point of The Avengers as a group. It's a private organization funded by Tony to save the world.

And for it's worth, to the extent it's just about stopping Bucky, Cap and those on his side would react the exact same way as Tony were it not for the personal aspect. I mean note that in Ant-Man, Sam has no problems with taking Scott down (potentially fatally) when Scott seems to be an enemy intruder.

So yeah, like actual people, both Tony and Steve are somewhat hypocritical.

edited 25th Nov '15 10:14:11 AM by Hodor2

Seriously, it's not shenanigans at all. It's a little thing called character development.

Last time we saw Tony, him doing things on his own with no supervision almost lead to global destruction. The complete annihilation of the human race. Civil War is clearly him realizing that there needs to be a chain of command, there has to be oversight. And that it can't just come from within the team, because what the team does affects the entire world. I don't see how anyone can look at this, assuming they saw any movie since Iron Man 2 (especially Age of Ultron) and say this is coming out of nowhere.

NOMUUUUUUUURAAAAAAAA!!! >:(

Tony is not about controlling people but about controlling his environment...said environment just happens to contain people, too. It is strange for someone who rejects the concept of self-control, but apparently Tony has learned early on that the best way to protect himself.

That's a really good point. This is actually (IMO as a "big government liberal" of course) a positive character development in that Tony is no longer acting as the arbiter of right and wrong himself.

Actually, I was kind of offbase in assuming that as per the comics he was leading Super Registration (or the equivalent). The trailer suggests he's more like a police officer enforcing the law than the comics' "Judge, Jury, and Executioner".

edited 25th Nov '15 10:18:03 AM by Hodor2

Yeah. Literally the only thing that government would have to do to get Iron Man after the Winter Soldier would be to go to Tony and be like, "Hey, there's this international Hydra super-assassin who's wanted by, like, all the law. All of it. Every law organization on the planet wants this guy. Can the Avengers do something about this?"

edited 25th Nov '15 10:21:10 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

The scale of Civil War in general is much smaller, and far less political.

Since I'm kind of a Nietzsche fan, I'm not so sure it's positive (for him at least). Now learning the values of self-restraint I could see as positive. But relying entirely on another party (a huge organization especially) to take care of said restraint for you because your scared is not the best idea.

People have a habit of being biased in favor of their own ideals, worldview, opinions, etc. Having someone else to go, "No, George, that's the dumbest shit I've ever head, put the Wookies back on Endor," can help immensely.

Super-intellectuals have a bad habit of banking on themselves being always right 100% of the time, but no one ever is. That's just ego.

edited 25th Nov '15 10:31:52 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5c2T4ytQ0g

Some really nice details...

"Leipzig-Halle" is btw the airport near (duh) Leipzig and Halle. It's a fairly small one, but well-used, because the train connections to Leipzig are still not the best, since it is located in former eastern Germany.

Yea, it went from government shit to being a Love Triangle between Steve,Tony, and Bucky obviously.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

It's a mutual betrayal.

What Steve hears: "Your best friend is going to jail for a million years and might get a .45 slug between the eyes before he even gets there because despite our history together, I don't respect you enough to trust your judgment and let you see this through to the end. This has always been the Tony Stark show."

What Tony hears: "I am emotionally compromised to the point that I am willing to throw away everything we've ever fought for, all for the sake of an old friend. The Avengers, the laws, and our personal friendship mean less to me than helping this criminal escape justice. Why are you so surprised? You're not the first peacekeeper I've stabbed in the back to get my way."

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Having one or at most, a close circle of trusted friends/confidants who are willing to speak out or advise you against your own views (and do the same for each other) is fine and dandy (assuming bad blood doesn't arise). A large outfit like a government, party, or mob? That can easily lead to big problems.