Troper Fencing Academy

Indeed. :/ (Which is a pity, because it's otherwise a rather fun game, as I recall.)

Hopefully what I'm building will be rather easier to work with. For one thing, I don't intend to ask the player to manoeuvre while fighting (with the possible exception of dodging to the left or right), let along turn around and adjust one's interpretation of the sword arm with such turns, etc. I'm also taking a lot of inspiration from the old Quest For Glory games (Quest for Glory 3 in particular) and Infinity Blade, both of which had, I feel, combat systems that were far better.

My wife who has some school training on game design and I have discussed a similar concept. The solution we came up with a 3d turn based game. The idea being is the fighters move to fast for the average players reaction. Sort of like Toribash only you don't have move individual muscles.

The player would have some turn by turn choices based on what you have done previously. doing certain things had a risk factor that could change how the move turned out. There was a skill system that tied into it.

A turn was broken up between 3-5 parts. Players started at a neutral position and would choose the start of their move. Once both players have done that each got a "read" on the opponents motion based on previous choices. Via a ghost showing what the motion would do. Players would then have a certain range of options based on the previous move. By the time you came to the final turn your choices boil down to the final move. There was some room for tweaking based on the ability to aim the blade based on arm position and direction of attack at the time.

The idea was based around foil, epee, and thrusting type rapier combat. This would have been a test bed for a more detailed game.

The big idea would be enough room to make some tweaks to your movement and customize moves on the fly to a point. It would eventually incorporate more melee weapons, take into account armor or protection, and even terrain.

That sounds pretty interesting, actually!

My approach to the speed issue is essentially that taken by Quest For Glory

Have you played any of the first three Quest For Glory games—or the recent freeware game Heroines Quest? If not, you might find their approach interesting: the player essentially squares off against an enemy. The player and enemy both have a pre-set collection of attacks and blocks. The player can attack at pretty much any moment, but using the same attack too often can result in the enemy recognising the pattern and responding to it. On the other hand, the enemy's attacks are slightly telegraphed via "tells"; defence becomes a matter of watching for these and thus predicting the enemy's next move in time to respond to it. Either way, timing is important: enemies are (I think) less likely to successfully block when open after an attack or during the preparation for certain attacks, and the player's blocks only work if timed appropriately to the attack. There are a few other nuances (spells, for example), but that's the core of it, I think.

It works pretty well, I feel; if you haven't tried any of those games, I recommend them—at the least there's a (rather good, I feel) freeware fan re-make of Quest for Glory 2 that I recall having a particularly good version of the system (and which should be available here), and, as mentioned, Heroine's Quest is free (and should be available here).

In both the games above and my own idea, I suppose that the solution to the problem of speed is simply to slow things down a little—not so much that it feel sluggish, one hopes, but enough to make it playable. The Quest for Glory system almost feels turn-based, as I recall.

edited 3rd May '14 4:13:43 PM by ArsThaumaturgis

I just saved this thread from the horrors of the second page!

Guys, I personally choreographed swordplay in a single video last night. Its total crap, but its a start to my budding career

I have a question: when wielding a single-handed, curved cutting blade, while wanting to retain a reasonable degree of mobility (including the ability to side-step or leap to the side if called for), how would the wielder likely hold their body? In particular, would it be fully-frontal, turned to the side (as in the sport fencing), somewhere in-between, or something else entirely?

(Presume for the moment that the wielder only wields the weapon single-handed; for the moment a two-handed grip looks like quite a pain to animate as I'm doing. ^^; )

edited 22nd May '14 12:25:20 PM by ArsThaumaturgis

You mean like a saber or cutlass? Probably the same as a sport fencing stance. According to my instructor, that stance is the most efficient in both reducing your target area, while allowing maximum reach and maximum mobility. You can leap to the side if you have to, but generally just in the direction your torso is facing. If you can't go that way, you could make an in quartata evasion with your back leg, then use it to spring to the outside.

A sabre or cutlass would be exactly the sort of thing that I have in mind, I believe, yes.

Hmm... I had a feeling that it would be so. (I used to fence myself (and would like to do so again), so I'm somewhat aware of the pose.)

I wasn't familiar with "in quartata"; I've looked at the definition given here, but am not entirely sure of which way the "outside" is in your description. As I understand it, however, the evasion would either turn my character such that her back or front is to the enemy (I'm guessing the latter, since presenting one's back to an enemy outside of sport seems unwise to me), then simply sidestep or jump to the side—is that correct?

I'm a little uncertain of whether this would leave my character as mobile as I might have liked...

edited 22nd May '14 2:58:31 PM by ArsThaumaturgis

In quartata is pretty much stepping your back leg in the direction of its heel so that you end up in a sort-of crossed leg position. This brings your body backwards and out of line. "Line" here means your centerline: imagine a line drawn from your center to your opponent's center.By stepping off that line you evade their direct-most attack while they are in the range of your direct-most attack.

When people talk about "outside" in fencing, they mean everything in the side of the sword where the back of your sword hand would be facing when you hold it with your knuckles pointing down.

In terms of cutlass I heard that the British method is similar to the Highlanders (but then the British officers do everything like the Scotts in fencing). Alfred Hutton also have a method for military sabres at his time (later 19th/early 20th century). The latter is a rather linear system compared with the Highlanders though, which I heard is typical of the British system in that period: compare Paige/Hope/MacBane. The Polish sabre system from what I've seen is another kettle of fish altogether and it relies on the fact that Polish sabres are a bit tip heavy and thus it's easy to continuously swing and do attacks and parries that way.

edited 22nd May '14 4:29:22 PM by IraTheSquire

Ah, thank you, I believe that I understand the "in quartata" manoeuvre, and the suggested jump, more clearly now. ^_^

(In case I am misunderstanding, I'll note that I take it then that "outside" would be in the direction of the hand that holds the weapon—if I'm mistaken, please correct me. ^^; )

Hmm... Dodging in that manner seems to me to be likely to be reasonably agile, but does come with the concern of making it difficult to see where one is going when dodging to the outside (if I do now understand correctly).

Could one dodge to the outside by quarter-turning to the outside, putting the leading foot out in that direction (thus opening the legs rather than crossing them) and then proceeding from there? Opening the legs should, I think, reduce the force that one would get from the initial step, but at least allow the character to see where they're going.

In all fairness, I'm not looking to implement a full style: I just want a reasonable stance that makes some degree of sense for a single-handed cutting weapon while still allowing the character to move to either side with good agility. I'm already taking at least some liberty (I believe) on the actual cuts. ^^;

This footwork exists, but it is not a "dodging" footwork as it doesn't bring your body out of the line.

The Highlanders do that, but at the same time they bring their sword the outside (ie, to close the outside line) so stop any blows coming from that direction. The footwork is more for biomechanical advantage as it aligns your body behind your sword to receive the blow. It's also called the "outside guard".

Edit: Actually, you can step further in that way and make it a "dodging" move if you move out of the line. That's more of an Italian thing though. Also, it is a better attacking move (as it is a longer step which takes more time and a diagonal cut from your right downwards to your left (assuming you're right handed) as you do it is a great way to launch an attack as it closes the line.

edited 22nd May '14 5:45:43 PM by IraTheSquire

It's just occurred to me that I should perhaps clarify what I mean by "dodging" in this context. ^^;

I'm not referring to evading an attack and then resuming one's previous posture, but actually manoeuvring around the opponent—changing the line of attack. While this might well be done to evade a blow, it may also be done simply to change one's relative position, perhaps to expose or exploit a weakness.

(Note that this is for a game, so cases in which manoeuvring like this is advantageous are likely to be more common than in most contexts.)

Actually, that's what I was talking about when referring to the Italian move of stepping off line.

It's two combined: you stepped off line so that you're no longer in the direct attack of your opponent, but your opponent is still in your line of attack because they are still facing the direction that you were before your step.

edited 22nd May '14 6:43:35 PM by IraTheSquire

Ah, I see—my mistake, and thank you. ^_^

Tomorrow I will be going to my kendo dojo, the same one that I used to go about a year ago, again.

It's no Eskrima, kenjutsu, or European fencing, but I guess it's better than nothing. Besides, it's a GREAT workout.

Hey people, I made a thing◊

Heh.

Nice.

So it has been a week since I started going to kendo practices. Man, I sure got rusty over time. Sparring is a real pain in the ass; all the armor and helmet is suffocating, and I find myself lacking energy to last a single match, let alone multiple.

Got a long way to go.

I'm now of the belief that Cold Steel is a Jedi Knight system. Because it uses a light sabre.

Oh, that was bad.

Sword attack in the news That isn't a Katana or even a European blade. It is in India with some Separatist Sikhs being the culprits.

I had no idea that there is a 'right' way to learn how to fight but there is. Is there a 'right' to approach the fighting arts?

Yeah. Stick the other guy with the pointy end.

What about all the other stuff? Like trying not to be on the receiving end of the pointy stick?

Oh, Ok. Stick the pointy end in the other guy before the other guy sticks his pointy end unto YOU!

There are many approaches to the art of fighting, and how you do it depends greatly on how you learned to fight and how you react. I prefer to greatly overwhelm before the foe knows what is going on.