DEATH BATTLE

Using characters with abilities in-game is always pretty interesting. Think it’d be fun to put two characters who don’t actually have powers and really are just fighting in an VR MMO game against each other. The ending would just have one game over after dying in game and taking off their head set.

That said, you probably could argue them going against opponents who are “real” in nature too, if you wanted to. Reminds me of some problems regarding using OMORI, who in-universe is just the manifestation of someone’s trauma all within their head. I mean we definitely see them doing things and fighting in his dream world, it’s just everything they do is imagined. That and, y’know, possibly discomfort that might come from putting someone’s suicidal depression into a VS analysis.

That reminds me of the problem with putting Pyramid Head in Death Battle, how do you measure the strength, speed and durability of something that only exists inside of one person's mind as an abstract representation of their desire to be punished for the death of their wife?

Oh and also a chibi version of him appears in the Nintendo DS game 'New International Track & Field', competing in events such as sprinting, hurdles, swimming and skeet shooting. Really.

If you don't use the things he did directly on screen there's no point using him.

People said Dragonborn wouldn't make sense because he/she could go all these different directions with skills/perks. The answer was "use and composite everything they can do."

So if Pyramid Head is an olympic track athlete then that should be included.

Edited by FOFD on Apr 2nd 2024 at 1:52:36 PM

Oh, Pyramid Head definitely has enough on-screen feats that you could totally put something together if you had to, but it wouldn't really work, or represent the series very well. Dragonborn actually exists in the universe of Skyrim. Pyramid Head is not real in Silent Hill 2. So, what are Pyramid Head's limitations? Because since he's an abstract representation of guilt and desire to be punished, then it's not like he would lose if James learned to bench-press 200 tons and threw him into the Sun, that probably wouldn't even do anything; not in the sense that Pyramid Head can tank the Sun, but because James' guilt would still be there so he would just keep appearing. The only way to properly beat him would be to overcome the trauma that he represents, which isn't really something that would work in the context of a Death Battle.

... Huh, weird thought; if Pyramid Head represents guilt and a desire to be punished, he would absolutely kick the shit out of God of War 1-3 Kratos.

Edited by Elmo3000 on Apr 2nd 2024 at 7:16:26 PM

Doesn’t Pyramid Head pop up in like 5 other Silent Hill games away from his original context?

I like to think that the best win condition against Pyramid Head is to go find James Sunderland and give him a much needed therapy session where you help him come to terms with his inner demons.

Occam's Razor.

I haven't played Silent Hill 2 but AFAIK the Pyramid Head can be defeated by James with a crowbar or a pistol.

Likewise, the Keeper from Evil Within is a psychic amalgam of serial killer psyches. How can Sebastian, our lead character, defeat him? By blowing him to bits with his police brutality powers.

Pyramid Head's like Jason, just find him a guy who is similar so they can wail on one another. Like The Keeper.

Edited by FOFD on Apr 2nd 2024 at 2:27:14 PM

Yeah, after his debut game his popularity causes him to become a Breakout Character who routinely haunts the other entrants into Silent Hill despite them having completely different backstories and thus Pyramid Head's design and symbolism not lining up.

There's something to be said about how Pyramid Head is initially a complex and interesting monster that had to have his depth sanded off as a result of his popularity, which is why Pinhead from Hellraiser is the perfect opponent for him.

Damaging him reduces the time that his Hopeless Boss Fights take place, but no, he emphatically cannot be defeated at any point in the game, you can only slow him down... until James has a boss fight - against two Pyramid Heads now for some reason - and he realises "Hey, wait a sec, something something, representation of guilt!" has an epiphany, and then, with his/their purpose fulfilled, both Pyramid Heads anti-climactically kill themselves.

He does have appearances in other titles where I think he's still supposed to serve as an abstract representation of something in the Otherworld. He's also in Dead By Daylight though, so... I guess if you composite all versions of him then there's something along those lines that has a physical form. Possibly.

Edited by Elmo3000 on Apr 2nd 2024 at 7:39:12 PM

There is something physically stalking James. What that thing looks like is different for everyone who sees it, like how Galactus works. For James, that entity looks like Pyramid Head.

Each Pyramid Head represents the people who James has killed, his wife and Eddie. The second one only pops up after he's killed a second time.

Edited by Spirit on Apr 2nd 2024 at 4:54:42 AM

Just how "real" Silent Hill monsters and the town's effects are is bit inconsistent, even in the same game. For example from 2, Laura cannot see any of the abnormalities in Silent Hill and is never attacked by any of the monsters. At the same time, however, one of the events in 2 has James saving Angela from Abstract Daddy. Whether or not the two saw the same thing, something was attacking Angela that James could observe. So saying that "Pyramid Head only exists in James's own mind" is not quite correct.

Alright, but for the sake of Death Battle a "death" still counts as a death right?

Is Pyramid Head defeated and unable to reappear for a period of time?

I smell a win condition.

So, hypothetically, could Pyramid Head be beaten just by killing James outright?

Probably, but how would any of Pyramid Head's opponents know that?

I'd need to get back into Silent Hill lore stuff but I'm reasonably sure that even in his several other appearances menacing other people, Pyramid Head remains "I represent the abstract concept of your eternal guilt over that burrito you left in the microwave too long," and not an actual physical triangle-headed serial killer. Except in Dead By Daylight or Track & Field and stuff.

x3 A death is still a death, sure, but you could shoot Pyramid Head with an Infinite Rocket Launcher every two seconds for an entire day, and unless that somehow helped you get over the trauma of your dead wife, it's going to be about as effective as sending him a threatening letter.

I absolutely love the idea that this fight to the death could be resolved via therapy. Someone hurriedly hunting down James Sutherland, forcing him to lie down on a psychiatrist's couch, and asking him "Quick, tell me about your childhood."

Alright here's a rundown on Pyramid Head's various appearances.

In his debut game, he shows up several times. At first he does nothing but stand there menacingly and rape a few monsters, you know nothing important. But in his first fight you meet him possibly raping another monster, but this time he's sick of James' voyeurism and fights back. He's not all that impressive, slowly dragging his Great Knife at you and very sluggishly swinging is vaguely in your direction. He can grab you and stab you with what can best be described as his tongue. He can also one-hit kill you by swinging his Great Knife over his head and down on top of James. After enough time has passed (which you can speed up by doing damage) he decides James is cringe and peace out, going down the flooded stairwell. He doesn't drown so I guess that can count as a feat.

His next fight is after James has killed Eddie, so now there's a second one in a dual boss fight. They both use spears this time, and like before you just need to wait until a time limit is up. After that they both decide James is cringe and, unlike before where they could escape him, decide to kill themselves to get away from James.

PH shows up again in SH Homecoming. It's basically a glorified cameo though, as he only shows up to once again stand there menacingly. At best his later scene gives a feat, where he stabs then cleaves Alex's father in a single stroke. His appearance is slightly altered in this one, looking more like his movie counterpart as well as carrying a giant combat knife instead of what is canonically half a giant pair of scissors. Alex is a former army soldier (well, not really) so that's why his knife is different, so at least there's that.

He shows up in in the Arcade game. Not much to say here, he looks like his SH2 self, has the SH2 knife, etc. He can apparently control a swarm of giant cockroaches though.

There's the movies, where he's still slow but strong enough to rip a person's entire skin off in one pull, can cleave through sheet metal like they're tinfoil, and in the second one has a very awkward fight with another monster.

His best showing ironically as a Guest Figher in Dead By Daylight. Simply because, among a couple other things, he can walk at 4.6 meters a second. He also gains a short range Sword Beam attack, he can trap Tormented survivors in "Atonement Cages", and his Memento Mori has him trap them in barbed wire and razors and a steel beam to stab them.

Depending on how you look at the lore, you might be able to draw upon the Butcher's and Boogeyman's feats from SH Origins and Downpour considering they might actually be the same entity, or at least a similar one. But at this point we're really stretching.

Edited by Spirit on Apr 2nd 2024 at 6:34:33 AM

I feel like Dead by Daylight should be discounted, not just because it's a non-canon crossover for all the third-party characters, but also because the Entity tends to balance out the killer's stats so that they're a better match against competent survivors.

All of this reminds me of the old Pyramid Head VS Nemesis debate, where the final conclusion was basically “Nemesis outstats Pyramid Head really hard to the point that he stomps since Pyramid Head doesn’t do a whole lot”, but also due to how Pyramid Head exists, it was questionable if he even COULD be conventionally killed and that if that’s the case, either he wins over time or the fight just ends in a draw.

I mean, pretty much all monsters in Silent Hill represents some form of trauma of the protagonist. They still all die if you smack their head with a steel pipe enough. Up to including what is either God or a demon impersonating God.

Oh yeah wasn't the God (or what's possibly merely just a Demon impersonating) apparently responsible for both the Moon and Earth to orbit the Sun and establishing the concepts of Time and Death before dying when it still had an actual physical form in the Real World?

Not that anyone can scale as you kill the monster while its the equivalent of a caterpillar still in its cocoon. Otherwise it be like saying "am stronger than Mike Tyson at his peak because I slammed a metal pipe at the back of his head while he was looking away".

Edited by Candid-Jury on Apr 2nd 2024 at 12:03:54 PM

.....I don't know. I think it counts.

Pretty much. According to the Cult in Silent Hill, before there was time humanity lived in immortal misery. A man and woman prayed for salvation and from their prayers created God. God took pity on humankind and took away their immortality while creating time, splitting it up in day and night. She died after her strength ran out creating a Paradise for humans to go to after death, promising to return after she rests.

Now, Silent Hill already relies on a lot of ambiguity in its plot and God is no exception. There's very little detail on how true said creation myth is. Very little detail on whether there was a god or if a tribe of humans got tricked by Samael.

As for the God boss, there's also ambiguity on whether it was an imperfectly born God, Samael impersonating God, or if it was a rando demon that mantled the position of God - blurring the distinction between them.

Heather can still kill it by smacking it with a steel pipe regardless.

All in all, I think this conclusively proves that Silent Hill just isn't a good fit for versus matches, period.

Unless we're pitting its imaginary constructs against other series' imaginary constructs. Can you say "Pyramid Head vs. Tyler Durden, anyone?

(>.>)

Edited by FOFD on Apr 3rd 2024 at 12:29:18 PM

But is it Super Lava or what?