The General US Politics Thread

Yes, that exactly. I mean yes we need to show we have alternative (and better) ideas, it's good to test the waters and see what kind of support there is, and going through preliminaries like this is a great way to iron out problems and figure out how to develop the legislation into something workable. But none of that would have been changed by waiting two weeks—it's not like making sure the bill is considered before the end of the fiscal year means anything at this point. And while there are other reasons for the G-C bill, and other arguments and forces pushing for it, we don't need to give the Republicans any more help (or distractions).

I had heard about all Puerto Rico's power being out but I didn't hear about how long it might take to get it back.

Though I'm sure it's not really people's first priority now, I wonder if something like this could help or hinder their chances at getting statehood.

Eh, I dunno that the whole Medicare for all thing had all that much to do with the C-G thing, considering the Republicans are basically biting at the bit to repeal the ACA. It's just now they get to cry "Socialism!". Mind you, this is well after many have demonstrated they don't mind socialism all that much. If nothing else, Sanders has proven that the fear of socialism seems to have faded out enough for it to not be a sudden death sentence. I think this bill would have happened anyway, because it's their last chance to pass it without having to try and convince the other side.

What remains, of course, is whether or not this Hail Mary pass will work. They're not voting on it until next week; that's time enough for people to call and pressure the relevant possible no voters.

James Clapper: 'It's possible' that Trump's voice was picked up by Manafort wiretap

Translation: They totally have him on tape.

Dudes a former DNI. You don't say shit like this even ambiguously.

Mueller has the smoking gun. They're just trying to figure out when to strategically play it.

Holy shit

Even so they may not have caught him saying anything incriminating enough to use.

I have to wonder how much Trump's personal base would riot if/when he is impeached.

enough that I’d legitimately fear for my safety if I lived in a conservative area.

shit wrong forum lol

edited 20th Sep '17 10:18:05 PM by TacticalFox88

Huh? What?

More seriously, even if they have Trump on tape, they might not having something on him. Though the fact that they were tapping Manafort may be something that they use as leverage against Trump.

Oh boy, this roller coaster keeps on going up and we have yet to get to the drop part.

edited 20th Sep '17 10:11:16 PM by AceofSpades

And in more police-shooting news, Oklahoma City Sgt. Chris Barnes shot and killed a deaf man holding a pipe after being called in as backup for a hit-and-run investigation (the hit-and-runner was the victim's father). The first-responding officer, Lt. Matthew Lindsay, deployed his taser at roughly the same time as Barnes opened fire, when Magdiel Sanchez was roughly 15 feet away - no word on how aggressive he was acting at that distance, as the department is in the process of procuring body-cams.

And, much like the Florida case where a bystander was telling officers that the autistic man was holding a toy truck and not a gun, officers on the scene apparently didn't listen to bystanders informing them that the man was deaf. For what it's worth, this is somewhat understandable, as you'll generally ignore non-threats as part of the "fight or flight" response, as well as the fact that some bystanders are just trying to troll people. Still disappointing as shit.

edited 20th Sep '17 11:11:48 PM by ironballs16

Probably better suited in the Law Enforcement thread, or at least cross-posted.

But yeah, that's sad as hell.

As far as the MediCare for all thing, everybody thought the healthcare bill was dead, up to and including congressional democrats, and probably a good number of congressional republicans.

edited 21st Sep '17 4:08:00 AM by CaptainCapsase

Trump Pick for Civil Rights Role Is a Lawyer Who’s Pushed Voting Restrictions

Because of course they are.

Anyone from Virginia know anything more about this Quinn?

On the repeal: everything I've been seeing so far says Paul and Collins are still firm nos. Some say Murkowski may have switched to yes, others aren't sure. McCain has been quoted as of yesterday that he still wasn't convinced to vote for it and still wants a return to order. And though McConnell has said he's bringing it to a vote on Wednesday, he could still pull it if the votes aren't there.

edited 21st Sep '17 4:43:45 AM by Ingonyama

Yeah, I don't blame Sanders for it, but at the same time I recognize that it may have inadvertently done some damage.

The worst you could say is that "he could have waited until the deadline was past" but most people (myself excluded) thought that the GOP wouldn't make another desperate attempt. It's tough to blame someone for not anticipating the depth of the GOP's dickishness.

Yeah. I've heard the same. But both of those "firm" nos still leave my very nervous, and Mccain's close relationship with Graham along with the AZ Governor supporting it makes me worried. And Murkowski... worries me. I feel like she would've come out openly against it if she were a no.

And all-in-all, I cannot believe how quiet this has been. Which is a terrible sign. Compared to the uproar the last one created, there's basically no furor over it.

edited 21st Sep '17 6:30:33 AM by Larkmarn

"The worst you could say is that "he could have waited until the deadline was past" but most people (myself excluded) thought that the GOP wouldn't make another desperate attempt. It's tough to blame someone for not anticipating the depth of the GOP's dickishness."

If you assume that the GOP will stoop to any level, you can and should be able to anticipate what they'll do. How many times do we have to hear, "I never thought the Republicans would plumb the depths of their depravity and do such a thing!" only to find out that, yes, they absolutely would and you've been had? Individual Republicans may have the occasional pang of conscience, but never mistake a few Republicans for the GOP as a whole, or come to rely on them — the modern GOP is one of the most profoundly evil organizations America has ever produced.

edited 21st Sep '17 6:35:04 AM by CrimsonZephyr

I didn't expect them to try again when there's barely any time after so much doing nothing.

I had hoped they would quit, but I guess they saw an opportunity in the wake of the hurricanes, DACA, North Korea, and yes, the Medicare for All bill.

That is exactly why I blame the Medicare for All bill. The rhetoric among Republicans was, "It's dead, we aren't doing anymore repeals, I'm sick of repeals, I'm sick of McConnell, f*ck it, Obamacare is here to stay forever."

Then Sanders introduced his doomed Medicare bill to gain political points and Republicans all lightswitched into, "Obamacare truly is the opening volley of socialism! It must be destroyed now before it's too late! Repeal now! Repeal or you doom us all!!!"

In regards to Sanders, we previously discussed the question, "If you can't get anything anyway, what's the harm for making a principled stand and asking for everything?"

This, right here. This is the harm. As much as I love the idea of Medicare for All, this is not the correct political climate to be talking about it, and bringing it up now has only served to validate conservative fears about Obamacare in their minds.

This is exactly why I resent the Sanders Cult — full of fools who say, "HE'S THE WAVE OF THE FUTURE!" but there's no thought give to the proximal context so everything he ends up doing is a liability. I mean, it's lucky he's an old man — imagine if we had to contend with forty years of his Frenemy antics.

edited 21st Sep '17 7:12:33 AM by CrimsonZephyr

[538] The Media Has A Probability Problem. This article is (possibly the last) part of 538's The real story of 2016 series of articles analyzing what the media (and everybody else) got wrong about the election. Here they talk about how the media is incapable of understanding how probability works, not just in politics but also in disaster and sports forecasts. You should read at least the bullet points in the section titled "How a probabilistic election forecast works — and how it can be easy to misinterpret", but the entire article is interesting.

And as was mentioned before, Sanders could have at least waited until October 1st. Heck, in that article Ingonyama cited, even at least one single-payer advocate group thought introducing the bill at this time wasn't a great idea.

I love how Sanders is getting bitched at when he had several Democrat co-sponsors. Bernie Sanders is "ruining everything" and for some reason a bunch of people are supporting him but they don't deserve any of the blame.

You know who I respect a lot It's not Sanders, it's Al Franken. I've known him since I was in high school reading his books. He's an awesome guy and has had a wonderful run in the Senate. He backed the bill and I trust his judgment more than anyone on the Internet.

If you don't think Sanders is the main driving force behind this bill...

Besides, it's not just the Sanders haters here who think this is a bad move. Even Ingonyama, a Sanders supporter, thinks the timing was bad.