Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
The town hall provides the possibility of a Trump comeback. It was a format designed by Fox News and it's built to tilt towards people who are weak debaters by making them seem more personal and direct.
Although Trump's tendency to insult anyone who challenges him makes it a crapshoot. If he gets a challenge from one of the questioners, he's just as liable to blow his stack again.
A procrastination in of itself
For thosue unable to read ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
's link, Johnson was asked to name his faviourite foreign leader and couldn't remember the name of the guy.
Fair enough honestly, I do enjoy the statement that came afterwards, where he said that few political candidates could name their faviourite off the top of their head because the idea of a favourite is a gotcha question, however the statement went on to say that Trump is the obvious excpetion, as he's a great admirer of Putin.
edited 29th Sep '16 6:48:23 AM by Silasw
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
It is really interesting to see just how few shits libertarians give about the outside world.
Bet the guy can't even name the nations that make up the Security Council.
Oh really when?
United Earth
It is, in fact, something I observed on Lesswrong, among others. Libertarians talk a lot about humanity and mankind, but their interest in foreign cultures has a hard time leaving the Anglosphere. Unless it's new age wellness that they can buy.
So a commuter train crashed into a station in New Jersey, three confirmed dead so far with over 100 hundred wounded.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37503920
So there's been this rumor going around that Clinton was using an earpiece during the debate, and that's how she was able to crush Trump. You know, instead of actually preparing for it, which she outright said
The Dev Cat
@town hall debates - I don't think Trump will do any better. just going off the first debate, Hillary seemed like a genuinely pleasant person I could have a reasonable discussion with. we might not agree, but it would be a polite fair discussion.
Trump on the other hand, would more likely talk at me, be very defensive at the first sign of disagreement, and then just not listen to me.
I'm afraid I can't explain myself, sir. Because I am not myself, you see?
Of course Hillary has an ear piece. Because a woman can't do anything right without help. She handled Trump his ass because women have to deal with men like him on a daily basis from childhood. She's been prepared for this since she was in college.
Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy
Especially since Clinton looks like she can change her mind, based on evidence, and her mind will stay changed, while Trump tries to appeal directly to whoever he's talking to regardless of what he said or did five minutes ago.
edited 29th Sep '16 8:08:52 AM by Zendervai
Not Three Laws compliant.
Honestly, an earpiece would just be a distraction during a debate.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Lost in Space
@Xopher: At this point, it's probably safe to assume that any such denigration of Clinton is part of the right-wing conspiracy machine.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
But see, if she changes her mind then she's flip flopping. Honest politicians stick to their guns and champion their pet causes regardless of any evidence against them. /s
It's also something that would probably be very easy to shop in if you want to make her look bad. Wouldn't someone notice it anyway?
edited 29th Sep '16 8:12:32 AM by Kostya
The law in the night
http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-secret-earpiece/
http://www.snopes.com/clinton-secret-earpiece-debate/
edited 29th Sep '16 8:22:03 AM by AngelusNox
Inter arma enim silent leges
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
Xopher: I believe it's called Trumpelinas being sore losers.
Newsweek cover story on how a company owned by Donald Trump violated the US embargo on Cuba.
Documents show that the Trump company spent a minimum of $68,000 for its 1998 foray into Cuba at a time when the corporate expenditure of even a penny in the Caribbean country was prohibited without U.S. government approval. But the company did not spend the money directly. Instead, with Trump’s knowledge, executives funneled the cash for the Cuba trip through an American consulting firm called Seven Arrows Investment and Development Corp. Once the business consultants traveled to the island and incurred the expenses for the venture, Seven Arrows instructed senior officers with Trump’s company—then called Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts—how to make it appear legal by linking it after the fact to a charitable effort.
The payment by Trump Hotels came just before the New York business mogul launched his first bid for the White House, seeking the nomination of the Reform Party. On his first day of the campaign, he traveled to Miami, where he spoke to a group of Cuban-Americans, a critical voting bloc in the swing state. Trump vowed to maintain the embargo and never spend his or his companies’ money in Cuba until Fidel Castro was removed from power.
He did not disclose that, seven months earlier, Trump Hotels already had reimbursed its consultants for the money they spent on their secret business trip to Havana.
At the time, Americans traveling to Cuba had to receive specific U.S. government permission, which was granted only for an extremely limited number of purposes, such as humanitarian efforts. Neither an American nor a company based in the United States could spend any cash in Cuba; instead, a foreign charity or similar sponsoring entity needed to pay all expenses, including travel. Without obtaining a license from the federal Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) before the consultants went to Cuba, the undertaking by Trump Hotels would have been in violation of federal law, trade experts say.
Officials with the Trump campaign and the Trump Organization did not respond to emails seeking comment on the Cuba trip, further documentation about the endeavor or an interview with Trump. Richard Fields, who was then the principal in charge of Seven Arrows, did not return calls seeking comment.
But a former Trump executive who spoke on condition of anonymity says the company did not obtain a government license prior to the trip. Internal documents show that executives involved in the Cuba project were still discussing the need for federal approval after the trip had taken place.
OFAC officials say there is no record that the agency granted any such license to the companies or individuals involved, although they cautioned that some documents from that time have been destroyed. Yet one OFAC official, who agreed to discuss approval procedures if granted anonymity, says the probability that the office would grant a license for work on behalf of an American casino is “essentially zero.”
'He’s a Murderer'
Newsweek’s latest cover, “The Castro Connection.”
◊
NEWSWEEK
Prior to the Cuban trip, several European companies reached out to Trump about potentially investing together on the island through Trump Hotels, according to the former Trump executive. At the time, a bipartisan group of senators, three former secretaries of state and other former officials were urging then-President Bill Clinton to review America’s Cuba policy, in hopes of eventually ending the decades-long embargo.
The goal of the Cuba trip, the former Trump executive says, was to give Trump’s company a foothold should Washington loosen or lift the trade restrictions. While in Cuba, the Trump representatives met with government officials, bankers and other business leaders to explore possible opportunities for the casino company. The former executive says Trump had participated in discussions about the Cuba trip and knew it had taken place.
The fact that Seven Arrows spent the money and then received reimbursement from Trump Hotels does not mitigate any potential corporate liability for violating the Cuban embargo. “The money that the Trump company paid to the consultant is money that a Cuban national has an interest in and was spent on an understanding it would be reimbursed,’’ says Richard Matheny, chair of Goodwin’s national security and foreign trade regulation group, based on a description of the events by Newsweek. “That would be illegal. If OFAC discovered this and found there was evidence of willful misconduct, they could have made a referral to the Department of Justice.”
Shortly after Trump Hotels reimbursed Seven Arrows, the two companies parted ways. Within months, Trump formed a presidential exploratory committee. He soon decided to seek the nomination of the Reform Party, which was founded by billionaire Ross Perot after his unsuccessful 1992 bid for the White House.
REUTERS
Trump launched his presidential campaign in Miami in November 1999. There, at a luncheon hosted by the Cuban American National Foundation, an organization of Cuban exiles, he proclaimed he wanted to maintain the American embargo and would not spend any money in Cuba so long as Fidel Castro remained in power. At the time, disclosing that his company had just spent money on the Cuba trip, or even acknowledging an interest in loosening the embargo, would have ruined Trump’s chances in Florida, a critical electoral state where large numbers of Cuban-Americans remain virulently opposed to the regime.
“As you know—and the people in this room know better than anyone—putting money and investing money in Cuba right now doesn’t go to the people of Cuba,’’ Trump told the crowd. “It goes to Fidel Castro. He’s a murderer. He’s a killer. He’s a bad guy in every respect, and, frankly, the embargo must stand if for no other reason than, if it does stand, he will come down.”
Its Stock Price Had Collapsed
By the time Trump gave that speech, 36 years had passed since the Treasury Department in the Kennedy administration imposed the embargo. The rules prohibited any American person or company—even those with operations in other foreign countries—from engaging in financial transactions with any person or entity in Cuba. The lone exceptions: humanitarian efforts and telecommunications exports.
The impact of the embargo intensified in 1991, when the collapse of the Soviet Union ended its oil subsidies to the island and triggered a broad economic collapse. By 1993, Cuba faced extreme shortages, and Castro was forced to start printing money solely to cover government deficits. Three years later, the U.S. Congress passed the Helms-Burton Act, which codified the embargo into law and worsened Cuba’s economic decline. With many financial options closed off, Cuba attempted to find overseas investment to modernize its tourism industry and other businesses.
REUTERS
The first signs that American policy might be shifting came in March 1998, when President Clinton announced several major changes. Among them: resuming charter flights between the United States and Cuba for authorized Americans, streamlining procedures for exporting medical equipment and allowing Cubans in the U.S. to send small amounts of cash to their relatives on the island. However, Americans and American companies still could not legally spend their own money in Cuba.
That fall, as critics pressured Clinton to further loosen the embargo, Trump Hotels saw an opportunity. Like the Communist regime, the company was struggling, having piled up losses for years. In 1998 alone, Trump Hotels lost $39.7 million, according to the company’s financial filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Its stock price had collapsed, falling almost 80 percent from a high that year of $12 a share to a low of just $2.75. (After multiple bankruptcies, Trump severed his ties with the company; it is now called Trump Entertainment Resorts and is a subsidiary of Icahn Enterprises, run by renowned financier Carl Icahn.)
The company was desperate to find partners for new business that offered the chance to increase profits, according to another former Trump executive who spoke on condition of anonymity. The hotel and casino company assigned Seven Arrows, which had been working with Trump for several years, to develop such opportunities, including the one in Cuba.
On February 8, 1999, months after the consultants traveled to the island, Seven Arrows submitted a bill to Trump Hotels for the $68,551.88 it had “incurred prior to and including a trip to Cuba on behalf of Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts Inc.”
The 1999 document also makes clear that executives were still discussing the legal requirements for such a trip after the consultants had already returned from Cuba. The government does not provide after-the-fact licenses.
“Under current law trips of the sort Mr. Fields took to Cuba must be sanctioned not only by the White House but are technically on behalf of a charity,’’ the bill submitted to Trump Hotels says. “The one most commonly used is Carinas Cuba.”
The instructions contain two errors. First, while OFAC is part of the executive branch, the White House itself does not provide licenses for business dealings in Cuba. Second, the correct name of the charity is Caritas Cuba, a group formed in 1991 by the Catholic Church, which provides services for the elderly, children and other vulnerable populations in the Caribbean nation. Caritas Cuba did not respond to emails about contacts it may have had with Trump Hotels, Seven Arrows or any individuals associated with them.
The invoice from Seven Arrows was submitted to John Burke, who was then the corporate treasurer of Trump Hotels. In a lawsuit on a different legal issue, Burke testified that Trump Hotels paid the bill in full, although he denied recognizing the document.
‘Totally False’
Donald Trump at a taping of “Larry King Live” on CNN in New York City on October 14, 1999.
◊
REUTERS
The Cuba venture was one of two assignments given to Seven Arrows at that time, and the second has already emerged as an issue in the GOP nominee’s bid for the presidency. Trump Hotels also paid the consulting firm to help develop a deal with the Seminole tribe of Florida to partner in a casino there. Knowing that the Florida Legislature and governor opposed casino gambling in the state, Trump authorized developing a strategy to win over politicians to get the laws changed in an effort named “Gambling Project.” The law firm of Greenberg Traurig was retained to assemble the strategy. A copy of the plan prepared by the lawyers showed the strategy involved hiring multiple consultants, lobbyists and media relations firms to persuade the governor and the Legislature to allow casino gambling in the state. The key to possible success? Campaign contributions.
The plan states “the executive and legislative branches of Florida government are driven by many influences, the most meaningful of which lies in campaign giving.” For the Legislature, it recommends giving to “leadership accounts” maintained by state political parties, rather than to individual lawmakers, because “this is where the big bucks go and the real influence is negotiated.” Records show Seven Arrows also incurred $38,996.32 on its work on the Gaming Project, far less than it spent for the Cuba endeavor.
Aside from deceiving Cuban-Americans, records of the 1998 initiatives show that Trump lied to voters about his efforts in Florida during that period. At the second Republican presidential debate in September 2015, one of Trump’s rivals, Jeb Bush, said the billionaire had tried to buy him off with favors and contributions when he was Florida’s governor in an effort to legalize casino gambling in the state. “Totally false,’’ Trump responded. “I would have gotten it.”
The documents obtained by Newsweek give no indication why the $39,000 spent on Seven Arrows’ primary assignment—arranging for a casino deal with the Seminole tribe—was so much less than the $68,000 expended on the Cuba effort. The former Trump executive could not offer any explanation for the disparity.
Though it has long been illegal for corporations to spend money in Cuba without proper authorization, there is no chance that Trump, the company or any of its executives will be prosecuted for wrongdoing. The statute of limitations ran out long ago, and legal analysts say OFAC’s enforcement division is understaffed, so the chances for an investigation were slim even at the time.
And perhaps that was the calculation behind the company’s decision to flout the law: the low risk of getting caught versus the high reward of lining up Cuban allies if the U.S. loosened or dropped the embargo. The only catch: What would happen if Trump’s Cuban-American supporters ever found out?
edited 29th Sep '16 8:14:51 AM by Krieger22
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Lost in Space
That was mentioned yesterday when Maddow broke the story, but now we have the full article. Lovely. That should please all the Republicans who make hating on Cuba a part of their political identity.
I don't get it. Trump is the least qualified candidate in history. I'd love to be proven wrong. Why isn't this all over the news ?
Because he brings in ratings. The news networks are too greedy to care that they might get a fascist psychopath as their next president.
edited 29th Sep '16 8:40:13 AM by Bat178
I mean it's not an exaggeration in any sense. He's guilty of every kind of fraud. He knows shit about economics and foreign policy. FRAUD!! Why is Clinton getting the blunt?
Lost in Space
Also, because the media have built a kind of ethical bulwark around the idea that they don't take sides: that they must always occupy an "impartial" position that treats all opinions about a story as possibly valid. This is done in a (futile) desire to avoid being perceived as biased and thus alienating potential segments of their audience.
So, when someone gets famous as a climate change denier, they might put that individual up against a climate scientist in a one-on-one debate, then ask their viewers who was more persuasive, ignoring the factual reality of climate change. This goes all the way down: bullshit economic ideas aren't challenged by the anchors and interviewers, but rather by presenting "alternative views" as if they are equally valid and it's all a matter of opinion.
This trend has gone on so long and is such a part of the media culture that it has been incredibly slow to deal with the reality of Donald Trump: a man who is a serial liar and brazen bigot with no regard for anything but what bolsters his own media image. It's starting to happen, though: Matt Lauer's disgraceful performance at the veterans' town hall made even his own peers start to question their devotion to the idea that "both sides must have a point", and the media is confronting the very real possibility that their 25-year program of masturbating over every single phony scandal manufactured by the right about the Clinton family might possibly throw the election to a narcissistic Cheeto.
edited 29th Sep '16 8:51:25 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Here's what I don't get: what, even allegedly, has Clinton done that people could possibly consider Trump the "lesser of two evils"?
Deranged X-Mas Figure
1.She used a private email system, and keeping anything a secret from the general public is bad, m'kay?
2.She's a woman, and as we all know, women are always more susceptible to fault then men. Yes, even more so than narcissistic cheetos.
3.She's crooked lying Hilary because Trump says so and because SHUT UP.
edited 29th Sep '16 8:55:12 AM by kkhohoho
Doctor Who — Long Way Around: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13536044/1/Doctor-Who-Long-Way-Around
Lost in Space
That would be held as a violation of the First Amendment, which is broadly interpreted to mean that the press is pretty much second only to God in terms of how much freedom it gets to operate. Never mind that it might cost some news shows ratings if they dared present "facts" that might contradict their viewers' closely held beliefs.
V
@ Fighteer:
Mind you, in some places outside the US, impartiality is mandatory for news broadcasts (TV, Radio) as part of their Broadcast Licence. Doesn't stop claims of biasnote , however.
edited 29th Sep '16 9:06:30 AM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
Gary Johnson did not have a good day today
.
He actually referred to it as an "Aleppo moment".
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot