The General US Politics Thread

I disagree with the notion that New Democrats are friendly with China. Maybe not as openly hostile as the GOP, but I still wouldn't categorize the relationship as sincerely friendly.

Other than that, I agree with a lot of what your saying.

edited 4th May '16 1:43:59 AM by Demonic_Braeburn

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.

Well, at least the Kasich supporters are still optimistic.

edited 4th May '16 2:10:24 AM by Eschaton

Friendly with China in that a lot of business ventures and Chinese growth was fueled by China working with US businesses, which was probably backed by the New Democrats (though a fair amount of this probably also started under Reagan and Bush Sr.)

Maybe not politically friendly, but we were definitely trying to pierce into China with American business.

The ire at NAFTA and other trade deals is misdirected. Globalization has net benefits for the countries involved; the problem is when you combine globalization with insufficient domestic controls to ensure that workers don't get the short end of the stick. It should surprise nobody that if you give businesses the ability to shift jobs around to the least expensive labor markets but don't increase the taxes on the profits they earn from doing so, the poor and middle-class will be net losers.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

The expectation with trade deals is generally that workers whose jobs are outsourced will be able to retrain in a higher skill field/a field that cannot be readily outsourced. That's generally true, but it breeds a great deal of resentment, and has a nasty habit of shafting middle aged workers who are neither in a position to retire or retrain in a field that would earn them a similar amount of money.

Which is the problem.

Again, post Reagan Democrats tend to fail to package in Tax Increases and increase Social Spending and Benefit Programs. Which isn't helped by that generation of Dems being very "Work Smarter, Not Harder", by insisting slashing programs and saving is a smart idea.

And what the Cap said.

Programs designed by Upper Class Technocratic Yuppies shockingly work for only Upper Class Technocratic Yuppies.

edited 4th May '16 5:52:48 AM by PotatoesRock

Please. The allergy to taxation in our political environment is straight from the right. You find some of it among Blue Dog Democrats who have to win elections in reddish districts, but let's not tar the Democratic establishment with brushes they don't deserve.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Here's a thought - if Hillary won, and picked Bernie as her VP, how many days in office would she get before someone tried to assassinate her?^note I say this because of how many people on the left dislike Hil - including some of us on the forum - and how she's loathed almost as much as Obama on the right.^{note 2} In the opposite situation - Bernie winning and picking Hillary as VP - that would pretty well make him safe from the right wingers. The ones who'd hate him for being "socialist" all hate Hillary even more. I've seen a few like that on Facebook. One had a meme ranking his candidates in preference: Sanders, Trump, Satan, Suicide, Hillary. -_- ^note I did point out that they could vote for libertarian Gary Johnson. They didn't like that idea. I don't think it's likely. For as much as the Republican establishment dislikes him, rejecting the outcome of a primary this lopsided would be a clear insult to their own voters, and could easily drive Trump into making his own party with blackjack and hookers that strips away half the Republican base.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

I had seen the idea being thrown around (on 538) of a NeverTrump Republican running on a third-party to try to prevent majority in the Electoral College, whereupon the presidency would be tossed to the House.

The deadline to run third party is very soon in Texas (significant because it's a big state). We'd know if someone was moving that way by now.

@ninja: That would rather depend on what she did with the office of President. Personally, I suspect she'd be far more likely to be assassinated for going around and stepping on the toes of the rich and powerful were she inclined to do that, though in that case, these would be assassins would also be after the VP since he'd be even more likely to do that.

The left just isn't militant enough in America for something like that to happen, though if the US continues on its current trajectory that's not going to be the case for much longer on a historical scale.

edited 4th May '16 7:08:17 AM by CaptainCapsase

The deadline to run third party is very soon in Texas (significant because it's a big state). We'd know if someone was moving that way by now.

They could always pick Gary Johnson or something.

But the real problem is that tactical vote splitting didn't work so well in the primaries and it's hard to imagine it would work better in a general election.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

So it's just going to boil down to who gets enthused/freaked out enough to vote?

Republicans are showing themselves burning their voter registration cards in protest of Trump being the Republican nominee on social media.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."

Oh frabjous day! Caloo! Callay!

Trump delenda est

I'm going to wait until he actually is the candidate before burning mine. I know, it's wishful thinking, but the convention hasn't happened yet.

If it really is going to be between Kodos and Kang, maybe I will vote for a third party, even if it is throwing my vote away.

Okay, I genuinely don't get the Hillary hatred, and it scares me that people see her as being like Trump.

One has decided to wall off our country from minorities (literally and figuratively), one hasn't.

One wants to make internment camps, one doesn't.

One is a sexist, racist, homophobic jackass, the other isn't.

Hillary is nowhere near as terrifying as Trump.

Just yesterday, I saw a facebook post from a friend which was:

"Hillary says the president needs to be passionate about the subject of abortion."

Their interpretation: "Hillary says she is in love with abortions! Do you really want her for president?!"

And I facepalmed

Life is unfair...

I've also seen Sanders compared to Trump. I think people are just desperate to jump on any excuse to avoid the plain and simple reality that the Republican party has been going to crazy town for a long time, with Trump being the natural end result, whereas the left has no clear equivalent because the left isn't crammed full of anti-fact ideologues. The two parties are not symmetrical.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.

It absolutely is, although left-wing ideologues tend to be benignly wrong about things like trade relations and GM crops whilst right-wing ideologues tend to be wrong in a nasty way about black people and crime or whether or not America is a Christian nation.

Schild und Schwert der Partei

There is also a snooty arrogance liberals have (to dovetail with the angry contempt of conservatives) that make them anathema to independents even when they otherwise agree with the substance. It's that effect that makes people fear Trump (who on policy, with specific exceptions, is moderate), distrust Clinton (perfect on paper and a policy wonk, not great with the actual interaction and charisma part of politics), and love Bernie (too far to the left for a lot of people, but his modest integrity makes up for it a lot of the time).

So, against all predictions, the GOP might get a candidate earlier than the DP, which means it will be able to focus its attacks on the opposite side earlier instead of having to fight a civil war? Doesn't that look like the perfect scenario for Trump?

The problem with Bernie is that his reputation for integrity has been called into question quite a bit in these past months as he's gotten increasingly strident in his attempts to make a case for himself over Hillary. Just because you sell voodoo with a plain, honest face doesn't make it any less voodoo.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I've said before that the idealist in my likes Sanders, but the realist in me is prepared to vote Clinton, since I regard her as the single most competent candidate in the bunch. Whatever shadiness she may or may not be involved in, I've yet to see and combination of skeletons in few closet that would suggest she's a worse choice than Donald Trump.

edited 4th May '16 8:38:44 AM by sgamer82

I'm seeing breaking news that Kasich is making a statement in Ohio this evening. If that isn't him withdrawing, I'd be very surprised.

All hail our new Republican Presidential nominee, representing orange people everywhere.

edited 4th May '16 8:50:38 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"