Not a genre : Shonen Genre

I still don't get how calling it "Shonen Demographic" instead of "Shonen" is insular.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

Marq's getting a bit off-topic, talking about the change to Girl's Love.

And it's not so much that Shounen Demographic is insular, it's that Shounen isn't.

Bad example because "epidermis" is more specific. It refers to the outer layer of skin. So yes, if we're just referring to skin in general then we should say skin, but if we're in a medical or physiological context and we're specifically referring to the outer layer, then it's incorrect to not call it epidermis.

@Discar: Shouldn't that first line go to the "inscrutable trope names" thread instead? I made no mention of this trope here in the last few days.

This. A trope about the epidermis that has "epidermis" in its name should not have "outermost skin layer" instead.

edited 12th Jul '11 3:52:08 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

If neither one is insular, I fail to see the problem with being more specific.

edited 12th Jul '11 3:53:38 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

The problem is that Eddie is using the custom titles to force this on people. I'm fine with the trope page saying Shounen Demographic. But I'm pissed when I try to link to Shonen, and it comes up Shōnen.

Okay, the custom title objection I can get behind, but I think this seems headed toward a pretty good solution.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

A wiki about medicine that uses "Skin" when "Epidermis" was meant would be be lacking in accuracy, clarity, and above all would be undermining any claim to be educating people about medicine or anatomy. A media oriented wiki such as this should also strive for accuracy, clarity and educational value when it comes to informing people about media.

That being said, I don't have major heartburn with using Shōnen Demographic though I think Shonen Anime and Shonen Manga should also be options if that is what best fits the context of the use. I would have a problem if we were to try to call it all Children Cartoons or something like that.

edited 12th Jul '11 4:12:04 PM by Auxdarastrix

Thank you Aux, that sums it up pretty well.

Again though, the custom titling is just a big no. We'll run a crowner if we have to, but there's been no support for that. Hell, even Eddie didn't address it.

Eddie, we're a Wiki about media. If we don't use the proper media terms, that the producers of the media themselves use, what the fuck is even the point?

Seriously. Come up with an argument other than your old, tired, busted, refuted and absolutely DEAD one about "clarity"

You've provided a great reason to use a title with Shonen in it. All proposed titles include the word.

What's the problem?

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

Wow. Agreed.

Also if we were forced to merge them we'd also have to merge every non-adult American comic as well. (Meaning most of DC and Marvels line-up)

edited 12th Jul '11 4:41:22 PM by Vyctorian

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INUH, take a look again. There is now a proposal on the table to merge it with pre-teen fiction.

edited 12th Jul '11 4:34:46 PM by Auxdarastrix

-reads FE's posts again-

Where did he support that? I honestly didn't see it.

edited 12th Jul '11 4:37:27 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

I think he was referring to the option in the crowner, which was actually added by Cider and not Fast Eddie.

I think there may be some miscommunication goin' on up in this thread, and I'm not really sure who is advocating what at this point, so I will simply reiterate my belief that Shōnen Demographic, while redundant, gives the best of both worlds in preserving the correct term with one word and adding clarity for non-anime fans in the other.

edited 12th Jul '11 4:48:20 PM by Meeble

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Yeah, the proposal is on the crowner but FE is not the one who proposed it, as best I remember.

He didn't, you can tell by looking at the edit history for the option.

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About the skin argument: Everybody uses skin, not just doctors.

But nobody uses the phrase "Shonen Demographic". At least some people use "Shonen", not just publishers and/or fans.

The thing is, I don't see a valid reason why to change it to Shonen Demographic. We want people to use the proper term.

edited 12th Jul '11 5:18:52 PM by chihuahua0

But it is the proper term, followed by a word for the benefit of those who have no idea what it means.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

This. It's a compromise between "plain english" clarity and "pre-existing term" clarity.

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I almost feel insulted.

I know the difference between a genre and a demographic thank you. That's why I suggested the merge. As far as age goes, demographics are pretty wide and inclusive, because Shonen is an age demographic.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack

Except that you can't just merge the demographics of two entirely different countries!

Agreed. Genre's, demographics, even canon is different in Japan then it is in the states, Canada and Europe.

We wouldn't be creating something clean, clear or concise. We'd be spreading ignorance and lies.

Plus there is a load of Values Dissonance that adds to it, there are content and themes in Shonen that no American publish would dream of publish outside the adult fiction or even erotic sections. Yet this is considered acceptable for 10 year olds to purchase alone, whether in America there would be groups up in arms at it's very sale.

edited 12th Jul '11 6:11:22 PM by Vyctorian

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But the problem is that probably no other wiki on the Internet slaps on the word demographic on it. It's because they don't have to.

You're suggesting a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

And Cider, your stance reflect the Mirror Wiki. You're pretending that corn and pineapples are the same. They are not.

Adding the word demographic is a compromise,it's far better than calling it a genre and unlike genre it's still accurate, and clear to those who don't know what shonen is.

edited 12th Jul '11 6:11:08 PM by Vyctorian

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