European Politics Thread

Cameron calls June 23 poll that will shape fate of Britain and EU — Yes, the EU Referendum is on the 23rd June 2016. Hold on tight.

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edited 20th Feb '16 11:04:35 AM by TerminusEst

If the UK pulls out of the EU, I'll bet money that Scotland will be independent within 10 years.

Umberto Eco: 'It's culture, not war, that cements European identity'

Good article, but I profoundly disagree.

EDIT: Finland's "sins" as listed by Amnesty.

edited 21st Feb '16 5:52:06 AM by TerminusEst

I am a bit sick to hear nothing at all about Giulio Regeni's death in France - I assume it is the same in every country that is not Italy.

That is exactly the kind of event where the EU should take a hard stance and try to weigh in on the international scene.

But hey, Sissi bought our planes. We ought to let the brutal torture and gruesome murder of an innocent man pass, right?

edited 23rd Feb '16 8:09:00 AM by Julep

Never even heard of the guy until you mentioned him.

Can you link to some information? I have absolutely no idea who this guy is.

An article on him from The Guardian.

edited 23rd Feb '16 9:13:45 AM by TerminusEst

, : That's self-demonstrating really.

I only read about it because I happened upon a blog on Le Monde's website that was talking about it. It was pretty much coincidental, it wasn't prominently featured in any way.

I figure this is exactly the kind of case that should unite Europe. I think other countries could have been more vocal, but either Egypt had other deals with them, or France "asked nicely" for the matter to be dropped as a commercial favor.

You're assuming that Europe isn't willing to accept nations being occasionally murdered as the price of keeping the current Egyptian regime in place (and keeping the Muslim Brotherhood out of power).

I'm assuming there should be more journalists doing their job in Europe and actually talking about it. In France, right now, the actuality isn't especially crowded. The biggest news of the day was an animal slaughterhouse being closed because of acts of cruelty. Sure, it is bad. I think it is slightly less important than "European student abducted, tortured and murdered in a country we sold planes to a few months back".

A friend of mine is a teacher in Egypt right now with her boyfriend. I know where her political sympathies are leaning, even though as far as I know she is not a militant. She might be the next victim.

In fairness you guys sell hardware to everyone, I know that you sell to the Russians as well as the Egyptians.

Hardware yes. Planes no. For decades France was unable to sell a single Rafale outside of, well, France.

The fact that French missiles or radars are sold over the world isn't news, and neither it is really important for the economy. Planes though, that means many jobs (including my dad's) so we hear a lot about it.

Egypt was the first country to purchase some, and then Qatar was the second. The UAE might do too. I mean, if it keeps going this way, in a few years we might learn that North Korea bought some planes from France.

Don't you also sell ships though?

Honestly, the conflict in the middle east were no problem if all if not for the West keeping sending weapons into the region and throwing their own bombs on top of it. It would make much more sense to concentrate our energy on keeping weapons out of the region (after all, even illegal weapons have to be produced somewhere) and then they can fight out their conflicts with weapons which do less collateral damage.

They then just go to the Russians, who make bank from the captive market.

Yeah that just gives the market to Russia and China, which would allow for regimes to become even more oppressive. On top of what we'd be risking situations like Yugoslavia or Rwanada emerging if we simply quit the region all together.

Pretty sure many countries simply don't consider it their problem. When two of our citizens (a couple) were doing studies on terrorism in Middle East they got abducted. There was a very strong pull in Finland to just leave them, as it is their fault for being in a place where it's a real possibility. Eventually Austrian military intelligence managed to facilitate their release in cooperation with the Foreign Ministry. Although there was still some disapproval for wasting time and money on people who knew the risks.

EDIT: More on the death of Giulio Regeni

TL;DR: Nobody can figure out why he was killed.

edited 24th Feb '16 3:24:51 AM by TerminusEst

Lying Press? Germans Lose Faith in the Fourth Estate

So, I'm seeing #P Podemos Con Rajoy as a trending topic on Twitter, could any troper from Spain explain what's that about?

Switzerland votes on expelling foreigners for minor crimes

I've voted "nay", of course. The SVP's little obsession with immigrants is becoming profoundly irksome.

I actually tend to agree with the view - well, independent from the question why those people were there. But I think if all countries had a "no negations" policy, there would be less kidnappings overall. Germans are particular popular victims because it is a guaranteed way to get attention and money.

European strategy, European defence and the CSDP: food for thought

Worth noting here that in Switzerland, the aforementioned initative has failed, with only 41% of voters supporting it.