European Politics Thread

Outside of Dresden (And see what Zarastro said about the demographics there up on the page...) the Demonstrations have usually been swamped by counter-demonstrators. And those people there seem to be not just from Dresden itself but the right-arses from the whole republic, so its basically just aggregating the idiots in one place. (And german newspapers are saying that the reported numbers for Dresden may be higher than reality by the organizers)

I also wonder how big those 18 000 people where once you subtract the brown scum and assorted nutjobs just jokeying for another way into relevance.

Also, apparently one reaction has been a surge in voluntary workers to help refugee's in Germany, which I welcome. (From what german media reported, for every one of those idiots in Dresden we have 10 people helping...)

Honestly, if not the Af D using it as another way to score voters or spotlight I'd say this would have died back in '14. I'd call it less a rift in society and more a reminder that we still have issues and that we can't become complacent.

edited 6th Jan '15 5:43:27 AM by 3of4

Why Dresden? Are they not over 1945?

Nah, the problem is that the GDR never did the thorough workup about the nazi-period that west Germany did. So sentiments in east Germany are still somewhat more right-friendly than in the west. Its there that the NPD (extant nazi party, for all intents and purposes) and the lighter-shade-of-black AFD still gets the most traction and it takes time to finally get rid of that.

Dresden is one of the biggest cities of east Germany, so its basically just where you can find enough people to make it go big. Once they got off the ground there, the nutjobs all over Germany flocked in.

(Berlin is bigger, but at the same time more west and more left-y)

Any time they tried to make it go in another city it got swamped by counter-demonstrations.

PEGIDA is basically a conglomerate of right-fringe nutjobs and sadly ignorant middle class people. The only thing we can do about the latter is educate and wait...the former....enjoy the fact that despite all their claims about how evil the state is we are law abiding and they are thus safe

edited 6th Jan '15 6:00:33 AM by 3of4

Eurozone must choose between Democracy and Austerity: Either Germany and others accept dealing with renegotiations with a rising tide of left and right wing parties, or they turn into tyrants for brutalizing other nations out of the Euro.

Er ist wieder da!

Lutz Bachmann, the head of PEGIDA, a German anti-Muslim movement, has just stepped down after a Facebook picture of him cosplaying as a certain former German leader was unearthed by the Dresden Morgenpost. The picture has now gone viral. The Morgenpost also managed to find private Facebook conversations where the former soldier and failed painter common criminal called immigrants "cattle", "scum", and "trash".

Kameraden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen, Marschieren im Geist in unseren Reihen mit...

Oh gee. Something to be cheery about, I would think. No better way than that to hang yourself with.

Apparently the prosecutions office has started to investigate as a result of that for "Inciting hatred in the people" (which for obvious reasons is a crime in Germany)

Since they can't demonstrate in Dresden atm (general demonstration ban due to terror threats) they attempted to bring 40 000 people to Leipzig (the other big east german city) for the local Pegida offshot. According to german news sources they barely top 10 000.

And with him gone there seems to be the first signs of infighting in those groups. Lets hope this is the beginning of the end.

Burn you fools, buuuurn!

edited 21st Jan '15 12:05:26 PM by 3of4

So, since Syriza will win (though they'll probably fall just short of the required 37% for an all out majority of seats).

In case it happens, who do you think will make a coalition with them?

Live update by the Guardian.

edited 25th Jan '15 11:32:32 AM by Quag15

I repeat my prediction: cordon sanitaire and the parliament unable to make a coalition. Because Tsipiras is going to tell the ECB to fuck off to an extent that the ECB will be unwilling to cooperate with, which means he can't get To Potami (who are, of course, willing to kneel down and service the Germans for more scraps of aid).

KKE is really all they need in terms of a coalition partner.

Would KKE go for that? They sound like a purestrain Leninist party, and there's no real congruency of interests between Leninists and democratic socialists.

edited 25th Jan '15 5:29:52 PM by Ramidel

Some of the factions within Syriza are just as puritanical. Indeed, by allying with the KKE, those factions get that much stronger, so the KKE would find it in its best interest...

That said, there still seems to be some sort of chance Syriza will get absolute majority, so all this may just be academic.

Syriza victory has been greeted with alarm in Germany. The ruling CDU party insisting that Greece should stick to the austerity programme. But Belgium’s finance minister said there is room for negotiation with Syriza. (The Guardian)

Interesting... especially considering that Belgium had some anti-austerity protests a few weeks back.

Syriza just has barely a few seats away from an super-majority, and has effectively destroyed the major parties in the election.

This'll be fun to watch, especially since Syriza basically now has an overwhelming mandate against austerity.

Well, austerity is a pretty bad policy. I'm just not entirely sure if these guys are the ones that I want pushing against it.

Maybe, but these are the guys who are willing to do something about it.

That said, Syriza's kind of negligible. If it were just Greece, Germany could squash their economy with extreme prejudice and think no more of it, but with Spain, Italy and Ireland all looking at Greece for inspiration, Germany is scared stiff and trying to find ways to negotiate with Syriza without capitulating anything.

And with the largest non-Eurozone member, the UK, due to have a very uncertain General Election later this year^note  complete with the rise of a populist part of its own (UKIP) and a possible exit from the EU , no wonder Germany is worried...

edited 26th Jan '15 12:19:09 AM by Greenmantle

Hey, if you keep going "Beatings will continue until morale improves", eventually the beaten is going to grab the damn beating stick and beat you back, so to speak. What did they expect would happen, Austerity to not inspire protectionist populist movements?

Well the "right-wing party Greek Independents." have formed a coalition with Syrizia... this is going to get interesting.[1]

Can I ask what ANEL and SYRIZA both stand for, policy position wise.

I get they're both "Fuck the debt" parties, with Syriza being a general lefitst party, while the Greek Independents seem to be anti-immigration/multiculturalism with a "conspiracy theorist" vibe (except their conspiracies are real).

But I'd like to know more as to gather an understanding of just how "Odd Couple" this alliance is.

anti-austerity is a thing on the European right as well, so they'll work together on the main issues. It'll just fuck over the Greeks on a few social thingies, notably Macedonia, whom Tsipiras was initially ready to negotiate with, then rapidly back-pedaled later in the election. Now they'll be locked out.

And what exactly is going on with Macedonia, pardon my ignorance.

There is a country called Macedonia, and a region of Greece called Macedonia. This has caused friction.

At least, Turkey seems willing to work with Syriza.

It's all to do with the name Macedonia, which is both claimed by both Greece and Macedonia.

edited 26th Jan '15 6:00:08 AM by Greenmantle

Yanis Varoufakis as finance minister? Yeah, FUCK AUSTERITY is the watchword.

While I wish Syriza would have picked a somewhat less assholish coalition partner, I can understand why they did it; if nothing else, it sends a strong signal to Germany that they are through putting up with their crap.