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Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 9th 2024 at 3:24:05 PM
Stop Killing My Titles
Sorry for a double post, but it appears that President Duda will sign the laws he vetoed in July. (those being PIS' ideas about Supreme Court and National Council of the Judiciary)
So as it turns out, it really was nothing but a spat between him and Minister Ziobro about whose political dick is bigger. Farewell, Separation of Powers.
grah
As expected, Hungary will block any punitive EU action on Poland.
United Earth
Fuck.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Everyone knew it was going to happen, their interests align perfectly.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
United Earth
Surely it takes more than two states turning fascist for the entire Union to be brought to its knees?
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
In the first phase Parliament requires 4/5 to start the process-> In the second phase the Council must be unanimous to actually enact them. So if the country in question has allies, it won't go through.
The refugee crisis firmly upset the system, which didn't take into account outside shocks radically affecting the establishments of several countries simultaneously.
I also doubt the Treaty of Amsterdam (where Article 7 was agreed upon) would've been signed if it were more flexible.
edited 22nd Dec '17 3:38:18 AM by TerminusEst
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
United Earth
Well, what are the rules on meddling in each other's internal affairs? It's not like this isn't done.
But, you know, it should be done in such a way that the backlash doesn't nourish the far-right movements.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Strictly speaking? Don't interfere.
On the more general side, EU has to actually improve its messaging, possibly even getting its own internal disinfo task force, not just the one focused on combatting russian information warfare.
In a sense, it's like with the Soviet Union, the best influence comes from regular media.
edited 22nd Dec '17 4:19:18 AM by TerminusEst
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
It is too bad, but in a way, it is only a delay. There will be new budget talks in two years with the new budget starting in 2021. And then then Hungary and Poland can holler however they want, at the end of the day the budget will be decided by what the majority considers most important. Which might not be project benefitting two particular troublesome states.
A procrastination in of itself
I’ve asked before, is it possible for punitive action to be done against Poland and Hungary with one vote, so that neither can protect the other?
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
No. Hungary did come awfully close in getting the same treatment, but it didn't get through parliament.
edited 22nd Dec '17 6:13:37 AM by TerminusEst
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
Well that was a vote result, but is there a legal prohibition to putting two states on the chopping block at once?
Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yes. The Article only stipulates one single member state. In other words, they all have to be considered separately, and they can all cover for each other since their voting rights are not suspended.
edited 22nd Dec '17 6:21:26 AM by TerminusEst
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
(Avatar by Coffee)
It's also kinda anti-democratic because it takes a state's vote away for no (proper) reason.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Like I said, it was never really designed to handle multiple threats simultaneously nor can it be made to take into account common interests.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
So the EU can't do a damn thing if its members go full authoritarian.
God damn it.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Jeez, you would think they would have put some sort of 'break glass in case of emergency' clause into the Union. If for no other reason than to kick out a country that goes mental and starts electing fascists, because that has never happened in living memory.
United Earth
Also, why? I would understand in the case of Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Greece, because they really ate shit during the crisis, but have Hungary and Poland been hit with any kind of significant crisis?
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Refugee crisis. Easy to exploit by populists.
edited 22nd Dec '17 7:01:42 AM by TerminusEst
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
A procrastination in of itself
Hungary was impacted but Poland wasn’t impacted by the refugee crisis, the already fascist leaning government used it to their advantage, but Poland didn’t actually suffer from it.
This isn’t because of the refugee crisis, Poland and Hungary were both on a fascist path well before it happened.
edited 22nd Dec '17 7:09:30 AM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
United Earth
Why and how? This is genuinely frightening!
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
They never truly purged the stain of authoritarianism after the Curtain came down, they just charged the flavor a little.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
United Earth
It didn't occur to any of the Western powers to Marshall things up a little? They just took ex-Authoritarian regimes in willy-nilly? Haven't they learned anything from Germany's reunification?
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Precisely who I had in mind.
edited 22nd Dec '17 8:05:41 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
...*stares at Saxony*
edited 22nd Dec '17 8:03:49 AM by 3of4
"You can reply to this Message!"
It's always been there. Between the outright fetishization of martyrdom (Partitions of Poland and then WW 2), our status as "defenders of Christianity" (first The Battle of Vienna, then Battle of Warsaw 1920) and just in general being stuck between Russia and "Europe" has done no favors to us.
Now in the era of the migrant crisis, islam-affiliated terrorists, "Jewish conspiracies" (Soros has been unironically cited as behind some shindig the other day by Public TV) and the like, in this 97% Polish population, largely Catholic, it's easy to manipulate it into a nationalistic fervor. After PO has failed to actually appeal to the common man and used only "PIS bad!" as their line of defense, after Nowoczesna proved to be nothing but PO 2.0 with more corporate undertones, after PSL's country voters were taken away... PIS enjoys 40%+ voter popularity, with a tendency to go up.
Our democracy is simply not strong enough to hold against this kind of onslaught and the ordinary, faceless people either don't care or support PIS because they gave 'em 500 PLN the other day. It's a very Bread and Circuses approach.
grah