Metroid Series Discussion Thread

Ooh! Ooh! Do you have WiiConnect? I need somebody with Trilogy so I can trade vouchers!

edited 5th Jul '11 2:20:54 PM by nomuru2d

Already traded my vouchers away, sorry.

I could go and just start a new file to get 15 vouchers, though. Isn't too hard.

Wait, people are expecting Metroid to end after the next title?
What?
Yeah, and Pokemon Black and White are the last Pokemon titles.

Anyway, if I were in charge of the next 2D Metroid title I would focus on a few key aspects. Specifically Samus' 'exile' from the Federation, getting her suit so that its no longer bonded to her, and bringing back the Space Pirates as a credible enemy. All three points can be handled in a myriad of ways, and honestly I don't really care how the problems are solved so long as they are.

EDIT: Not saying her being a fugitive is a problem to be solved, but more one to be expounded upon.

edited 5th Jul '11 6:20:03 PM by Zeromaeus

@Zeromaeus, you seem to be missing a few stuff here. Let me count the ways, starting by the fact I haven't played a pokemon Black or White (sue me, or any pokemon game (yet), so your analogy is kinda lost on me.

- First of all, samus' suit isn't bonded to her. Fusion explained it can't be taken off once she is unconscious, and Other M even expanded on that with some mind link of sorts. Really complicated Chozo tech, but safe. That's one less problem to worry about in your ideal game.

- This is important to note: Metroids have a good chance of being completely extinct, safe for samus herself. The space Pirates have been erradicated, with no homeworld, and the zebesians gone; or at least their numbers are microscopical. With no real threats, people expect the sequel to fusion to end the series, or at least start a new arc.

- The Federation hasn't officially exiled samus. It's just that their corruption has been discovered, so now it would be logical for samus to face them head on. Bringing back space pirates would mostly be for fan service, rendering your other two possibilities moot.

Not saying they aren't possible, but you gotta think straight.

As you can see, the only logical ways metroid can go now are:

- Expanding on Sylux, either by making another subseries or a sequel to Hunters.

- Ending it with Metroid 5

- Making a new arc after 5, about a new threat or something.

- Rebooting the series.

Hope that helped clear your mind.

What I meant with the Pokemon analogy is that, quite simply, Metroid isn't ending anytime soon. Its one of Nintendo's big titles.

What I meant withe the suit thing is that after Fusion, the suit itself is bonded to her body thanks to the way the X reacted with the biological components with her suit.

She just blew up one of the Federation's top research facilities. One which housed a VERY important experiment. Common sense says she's not exactly going to be picking bounties up from them anytime soon.

I don't believe that planet from the Prime 3 was the Space Pirate home world, considering that the Space Pirates are supposedly an intergalactic threat that conquers planets regularly. It was probably more or less a home planet than the home planet.

The Space Pirates aren't from Zebes. Calling them Zebesians was stupidity on behalf of Metroid Other M. Or Fridge Brilliance if they want to go with the thread of logic that the Space Pirate grunts on Zebes weren't traditional Space Pirates, but rather Space Pirates engineered by the Mother Brain to be her personal guard. All of this, with Ridley acting as a sort of overseer on behalf of the Space Pirates as a whole, would be pretty groovy if you ask me.

EDIT: I agree that Sylux needs some focus.
I don't agree they need a new threat. The Space Pirates are enough of a threat to carry a game or three.
Rebooting it would make me want to kill things. Why does everybody turn to reboot things once you've started to build a comprehensive world around something?

edited 5th Jul '11 7:17:40 PM by Zeromaeus

The correct way to continue the Metroid series: just make something up, whatever. Plot: lol. The less the better.

I do have this great idea for a game where Samus gets stuck in a pinball machine, though.

I just posted the possibilities. Never said I agreed with them. Personally? I vote for a sequel to Hunters that implements Fallout's gameplay mixed with the classic metroidvania style.

What do you mean about the X reacting? She aborbs them because of her metroid DNA, her suit is fine.

Again, it is not my fault that Other M brought up the zebesians conflict again. I'm pointing out that most people, including some developers, believe them to be dead by Fusion. If they bring them back, fine by me, I want an epic final battle with Rydley.

Finally, they can end the series, and continue making prequels and/or expand the universe. I just want all the loose threads cut.

This. The plot is completely irrelevant as long as the mechanics are solid, you get to kill some aliens and Samus is a bad-ass again.

You know what I'd be down for? A Prequel. Instead telling us about Samus life pre-Metroid 1, lets us play it. She had to get famous/infamous enough for the Federation to hire her for the Zebes mission somehow...

Course you'd have to call it something beside 'Metroid'... cause there wouldn't be any. Shame 'Zero Mission' is already taken.

EDIT: As for her suit in post-Fusion world: I always assumed absorbing the SA-X at the end of the game 'fixed' her suit to its pre-X infected state. Even the traditional colors were back.

edited 5th Jul '11 10:08:05 PM by J.C.Lately

Metroid 2 was the first Metroid game I had. I think I got it when I was six. I didn't know what the Hell was going on, and I had nightmares thanks to all those damn Metroids. It took me years to work up the courage to beat it.

Speaking of which, just finished metroid 2. Damn, the last leg of the game is the perfect mix between epic and crap-your-pants scary.

You know what I liked in metroid? They way they told awesome stories in prime without getting in the way. Scan visor was a really good addition.

Also, I remember that Fusion is on of the best metroid games, and people always thought it was a nice way of mixing story and metroid gameplya.

What I'm getting at: most people here probably were affected by other m, and are now convinced plot is irrelevant in metroid series. I have to dissagree. Even metroid 2 tried telling a good story (through it's manual) and ended with a sequel hook. My point being, story is still an essential part of metroid. A talking protagonist, on the other hand, we can do without that.

Another good reason why I thought up Samus as a rabid Metroid DNA carrying lifetaker : because of game title. If Samus' blood isn't screaming for something, the series' timeline (post Fusion) will be pointless unless another kind of Metroid appears, via a new story arc way

However, if there's ANOTHER species of parasites that can only be countered by Metroid's omnivorousness, let it be known that that is a worse idea

@nomuru2d: If you still need vouchers, I can trade vouchers as soon as I get some.

Well, I'd argue that Metroid is still an apt title due to its in-universe translation. 'Ultimate warrior' kind of has Samus summarized pretty well. I mean, I'm sure Nintendo will shoe-horn Metroids into the story regardless, but they don't have to since they kind of retconned the title's meaning. I mean, is the title referring to the creatures, or Samus herself, who is so far a really good example of an ultimate warrior (the woman's kill count is measured in planets).

In the opening sequence of Metroid Fusion, it says the X infection bonded Samus' suit to her body, hence the title (also possibly the combining of the 'metroid' (Samus) and the literal metroid (was the manga out yet? If not, disregard this.)). I don't think absorbing the SA-X would have fixed that, but rather just restore most of the functions of her suit.

Honestly, I think that's just as good a sequel hook as any. I think Samus would want to be able to take off her suit (not during gameplay, screw Zero Suit). Again, if I were in charge of the next Metroid, I would set it up where Samus is searching for someone that can actually remove the suit, while avoiding/being hunted by the Space Federation. I'd have her get in contact with a scientist that seems to know an inordinate amount about her suit and its inner workings. The catch? The scientist is being held on one of the Space Pirates' worlds. Cue game. The first stretch would be getting to the scientist, which the game would hold your hand for. After all, the scientist is feeding you information about his/her/its location and the Space Pirates don't know you're there yet. However, once you arrive and manage to go through the first part of the procedure (the actual removal and replacement of the base structure (you started with super missiles, super bombs and the suit upgrades. You just lost them.), the alarm goes up, your maps are scrambled and you're left trying to escape the lab while Space Pirates pour into the facility.

I have more, but I'm afraid I'm stepping into fan-fiction territory.

edited 6th Jul '11 9:14:21 AM by Zeromaeus

When did we learn this? I've only ever played the console titles, is it in one of the portables?

Sorry to sorta bust between that discussion. I'm a pretty big Metroid-fan myself, currently, I have played every maingame in the series (Metroid/Metroid Zero Mission, Metroid II, Super Metroid, Metroid: Other M, Metroid Fusion) , as well as ever Prime-title (I even have the Trilogy-disc for the Wii, since all three Metroid Prime-games are, thanks to the controllscheme, way better to play) . As far as what my favourite games are, I really like Metroid Fusion and Other M. Fusion, because it's (for me) the most creepy Metroid-game to date, what with Samus running around the BSL-Station, while an evil copy with everything she's got from Super/Other M is running around there. Metroid: Other M, because I like the more story-heavy approach. True, there are some Plot Holes in there, though that's nothing you can't explain or retcon away, so that's not too bad. I also liked the controlls of Other M. Whatever most people are having with those... for me, I was able to destroy every monster the game could throw at me pretty fast. Concerning Samus: Actually, I've kinda imagined her the same way she acts in Other M. I've always imagined her kicking massive amounts of asses in battle, though whenever she interacts with people, she either stays completely silent (like she is in Prime 3), or when she has to talk to other persons, then she would be pretty blunt and rather aloof. That's because her upbringing wouldn't give her exactly the time to hone her social skills.

The Metroid translation was introduced in the manga. You know, the one that establshed Old Bird and uh... Gray Voice(?) as Samus' Chozo guardians and depicted Ridley's destruction of Samus' home colony. Its also what said that the Chozo specifically created the Metroid to subdue/destroy/whatever the X parasite.

Certain elements of Metroid Other M kind of ruined it for me. The having to stop to shoot missile thing was one of them. Less an actual hindrance and more a minor annoyance. A very persistent annoyance. Anyway, back to the subject at hand, my biggest problem with Other M was how it handled certain moments and certain elements. Particularly Samus' HBSOD. I mean seriously? She's fought him what, five times now? She flakes out now? What?

How the Space Pirates were handled was another element I disapproved of. After playing the Prime series, I have to say I've really attached myself to the concept behind the Space Pirates. Those games really expanded what little we knew about them and started the foundation for some spectacular galaxy building. Abandoning that, or at least appearing to abandon that, really felt bad, especially after I played the Prime games over and over in anticipation for Other M... If they had at least said the hive mind was something they implemented or something unique to the Space Pirates serving under Mother Brain, then I would have been okay with it, but really? I really hope they retcon that out. I really really do.

The origin of Nightmare was kinda cool... I guess. Didn't really have the impact it did in Fusion where he honestly freaked me the hell out whenever it flew across the background. In Other M it was just kind of... meh.

Samus' unfaltering subservience to Adam was a bit too much too. This game didn't show anywhere near the camaraderie the two supposedly had. Instead, it was just Samus blindly following orders, even to her own detriment. That's something she specifically fought against in Fusion. Why step back and say she's a team player when it was an established plot-point that she doesn't exactly handle orders with the same tact one would expect from a mindless lackey?

8larg! See what you made me do? I'm ranting before 1:00. What the hell kinda day is this gonna' be?

edited 6th Jul '11 10:06:35 AM by Zeromaeus

"Aloof" and "blunt" were not the words I would use to characterize Other M's Samus. More like "blubbering" and "servile".

edited 6th Jul '11 9:45:09 AM by MrShine

It would have made a hell of a lot more sense if it was Ridley who had the emotional breakdown. You'd think being repeatedly killed would be kind of traumatic.

The main thing that was wrong with Other M's story was EVERYTHING. The characterizations, the dialog, the plot structure, the way it was conveyed to the player... it basically did nothing right. Samus being codependent wallflower was the least of it. I can't think of another game that was so thoroughly damaged by the inclusion of cutscenes.

But I don't want to rant or anything...

Hey, you know what's a good game? Zero Mission!

Wait, so one arguably mediocre game and suddenly, the whole series needs a reboot?

loooooool

The way I see it, making a reboot is just taking the easy way out. Other M was... well not entirely bad, but mediocre. Metroid can recover from it with a few hand-waves and retcons. Also, with the inclusion of the other hunters, Metroid doesn't have to be exclusively about Samus. Make a side-series set in the same universe about Sylux. Call it something appropriate that isn't Metroid (the title of Metroid only belonging to Samus). Hell was that the purpose of Hunters? To introduce new characters that the Metroid team could spin-off from?

Zero Mission was a pretty good game. Lots of secrets. I like secrets.

edited 6th Jul '11 10:20:17 AM by Zeromaeus

Ok everyone, what did we all agree? No Other M. this has been discussed countless times, and it gets us bored and angry at each other. We don't want another failed metroid thread, do we?

@Zeromaeus: Urgh. You lack understanding, don't you? Fusion never states that her suit bonded with her because of the X. They only state that it cannot be removed while she is unconscious. Other M explains why. And no, Fusion isn't called because of that. It is called Fusion because she "fuses" with the X parasites. I told you once, I told you twice, your plot point is useless.

@Electivirus: A reboot isn't necessary. It's a possibility. Also, have you ever been to Gamefaqs? Go ask in the Other M boards if they need a reboot.

OH! BEFORE I FORGET: @Zeromaeus: Again, you need to read better: The zebesian thing was never stated by other m. That was stated in the original. Sakamoto (the director) wanted the plot to be like that, and chose to ignore Prime's space pirates. The point being, if you don't like it, it is not Other M's fault, blame it on the main series.

EDIT: I recently began playing the series in the order in which they were released. However, I started with Zero Mission because I wasn't in the mood for original flavor metroid. I don't know how to feel about this.

edited 6th Jul '11 2:09:17 PM by Polarity

Booted up Fusion. I was wrong on that count. Probably a hold over from my first play-through way back when. I admit I don't actually read the intro anymore.

On the second count, however, you are wrong. The pirates are referred to as zebesians in Other M which is either wrong or a very nasty retcon.

Also, you can't ban discussion on Other M. Its not only a part of the series, but also the most recent installment. Its a valid discussion topic.

I can't say much for the canon/not canon nature of the Prime series, seeing as how I'm not a Nintendo executive or a writer for the Metroid games, but I do think making titles that sold that well non-canon is a mistake on multiple levels.

Anyway, the suit problem is easily replaced by a power problem. If Samus is isolated from the resources she would have had under the Space Federation, would she have the power needed for her ship and suit? Where would she get such a power source? Well, I'm pretty sure the Space Pirates copy Chozo tech...

Plot to me is a minimal requirement for Metroid. Just give Samus a reason to:
A - be stuck in an area full of hostile aliens and Space Pirates
B - lose all her upgrades at the beginning

That's all I really care about.
Expanding the Metroid universe is just icing, really.

See, this is why I have troubles accepting those propositions. You have clearly stated that you don't care for story in a metroid game, which is kind of a big deal to many fans. Zebesians had been like mentioned like that since the original metroid, not to mention the manga, even if it's canon status is debatable.

Also, just by imputing your plot, you would be damging the whole story arc they have been building since Fusion. If they make a sequel, The Federation is the ideal main enemy.

Also, from what I understood (you are free to correct me if I am wrong, of course), you think that expanding the universe would ruin the series? Well that is just rubbish. For, you see, the main point of metroid's plot is that it follows a cohesive story, and since the games are leading to a conclusion, making a new story arc about a new threat would be nice after finishing the Fusion arc. It worked with phazon, in case you don't recall. Your ideas seem to try and keep metroid in a stagnant state, which would work well with, say, Mario, but not with metroid.

Oh, as a last bit of info: You wanna know why they introduced Sylux? Watch the end of prime 3.

I think you're mixing my long overly detailed messages up with other long overly detailed messages, so I'll make this quick and to the point.

• Gameplay, exploration and tone come first. Period. Samus is alone. Samus is surrounded by threatening things. Samus is controllable.

• Universe building is ok with me. I love universe building. I love it to death. However, I don't want it to get in the way of the games themselves. The background serves the narrative, not the other way around.

• I like Space Pirates.

Okay, there. Those are essentially what I believe. You can probably argue other stuff out of me, but I think those are the core aspects.

Also, I thought you said the Prime games were non-canon. You can't pick and choose canon...