The growing problem of inscrutable titles and text

Actually, if someone gets serious about staring a new wiki (as opposed to using Wikia) for categorizing tropes and works, I'd jump on the wagon, even if it just to have a hand in creating a new site. And also to be on both sides.

But still, the mirror wiki's stance on anime is a little extreme (Western Animation and Anime is as different as bread and rice). But we shouldn't get closer to that.

I REALLY hope that doesn't happen and I hope that's hyperbole. In this day and age it seems like it'd be really inappropriate to say that you can only have tropes or examples from certain countries. We have a global exchange between a bunch of different countries these days (not just Japan and the US) and anime, Bollywood, etc are starting to influence western media in the same way western media influences them, and to focus only on how tropes are used in Western media seems close-minded, if not downright ignorant. I will be extremely, extremely disappointed and frustrated if things actually get that bad.

Well, I'd need more incentive (as in, more incidents—this can still be solved on this wiki, hopefully), someone who knows PHP (I only program in C, Python, bash, and Lisp—and then, only decently as of today in bash and Python), some funding, a domain name, more backers, a general concept (a whole trope site or an anime trope site?) etc.

Ditto. This is the main disadvantage of having a strong Western-centric viewpoint.

edited 7th Jul '11 2:17:18 PM by chihuahua0

So what do we do about it?

I think we should be good examples of anime fans and try to contribute to the overall wiki (both for anime/manga/Japanese game examples and examples from other countries' media when we can), don't shoehorn anime stuff in or overly focus on the anime side of things when it's not called for, and overall be calm, polite and sincerely try to do things for the good of the wiki, personally.

If we turn this into an all-out war or become too aggressive when I don't think things have become that bad yet, we'll only make the other side kick back more harshly and cause damage to the Wiki. If we remain reasonable, hopefully Eddie will realize he might be being unreasonable and throttle back a bit on trying to cut out any signs of anime-fan influence. And if he doesn't, well...at least we wouldn't be making a bad name for ourselves in the process.

(Not that I dislike Eddie, I just think he's being a little unreasonable in this particular instance. Either way, there's no reason for us to be the same.)

Start a petition?

If so, I'll sign first

—Cosman246

A petition for what?

What exactly is the petition for? I think I know, but when it's in direct opposition to the admin, I want a clear-cut definition before I sign.

A petition to recreate Pale Haired Strange Kuudere, for one thing. A petition to stop this from happening again for another.

As below.

edited 7th Jul '11 2:46:11 PM by Cosman246

All I care about is having no more tropes summarily cut because of problems or alleged problems that can easily be fixed. Remember, the Cut List says:

so I'm concerned by this and a couple of Fast Eddie's other recent decisions that suggest if he has any problem with a trope, he cuts it. Again, I'd like to hear an official statement as to why Pale Haired Strange Kuudere or whatever it was couldn't have just been renamed.

Exactly. It could be renamed—I'd have nothing against it.

Agreed then. I don't think it's asking too much to require the admin to abide by the same rules we do. I'll sign. Let me know if there's somewhere official for that.

The YKTTW haggled over the name for a good two weeks going from Rei Clone to a few others before it was decided on the one that was launched in following Tiny Tyrannical Tsundere naming.

Trying to avoid the whole Bruce Lee Clone, Char Clone thing that people don't like.

edited 7th Jul '11 3:07:52 PM by Raso

I don't know if it'll make much of a difference, but I agree that the trope should be given a second chance and that Eddie should at least communicate more when stuff is cut so quickly, so...I'll sign.

Um, I'll sign as well.

Titles will be in English, folks. Debate doesn't help solve the problem. People just go around in circles about side issues and succumb to fandom myopia.

If you can't live with titles in English, then we may have to part ways.

That's not the entire issue, though. Speaking personally, I couldn't care less if you renamed every Japanese title on the wiki, but this was an actual trope. It should have been renamed instead of being summarily cut.

It can be rebuilt. Just not with that title. The cut was to emphasize that the English titles thing is meant to be taken seriously.

English is a language that mugs other languages in back alleys and rifles through their pockets for spare vocabulary. According to the dictionary, ryokan is an English word. Can we use it as a title? It's in the dictionary as English. Kimono is there. So is otaku. There's a lot of Japanese in English. And Greek, Latin, French, Norse, I could go on. English isn't so much it's own language as a collection of words from other cultures. It has no one true root like other languages do. It's a mismash.

edited 7th Jul '11 3:29:19 PM by shimaspawn

Why use a fussy and obscure term when a perfectly plain statement can be made?

The only time I can see where the obscure word is a good choice is when you are going for a joke of some sort. There is no joke, here.

The problem is, of course, defining obscure.

Either way, I'm going to point out every trope on Trope Names from Other Languages needs to be looked at then. Especially if you want to avoid accusations of bias (which, if this debate sticks to Japanese names only, is inevitable).

Accuracy is a good reason. There's a difference between a robe and a kimono after all. There's also the issue that not everything has a direct English translation. Clarity is what we're going for here over anything else. You're sacrificing clarity and preciseness which help prevent misuse for... I'm not sure what.

On the plus side... can we rename Nakama?

edited 7th Jul '11 3:43:33 PM by shimaspawn

Let's not go there. Nakama has kicked off enough edit wars already.

The main problem I see with trying to rename this trope in an "all English" title is that there's no "simple English" definition for kuudere; it's a specific personality type that doesn't lend itself to a one-word English equivalent, or at least I can't think of one right now.

In other words, shima's first paragraph in is on the money.

edited 7th Jul '11 3:53:59 PM by Willbyr