Clean-up and possibly make objective: Evil Is Sexy

Honestly, I get why Evil Is Sexy is considered subjective. Sexiness is subjective. Different people have different ideas on what's hot and what's not.

However, I feel the general idea "Evil Is Sexy" is objective. Sure, there are some ways you could argue it as subjective, but then again you could argue that Distressed Damsel is subjective because of the qualifications of helpessness. It's fairly obvious when evil is designed to be sexy. If an evil woman is dressed in scantily red with lustful lips and almost shown breasts, while the good woman is dressed in proper clothing, its pretty objective that the trope is in play.

It does need a bit a clean-up however. I've seen it misused for "Gushing About Evil Characters You Think are Sexy", as it were, which is not what the trope is about.

edited 29th Jun '11 9:21:44 AM by MangaManiac

It might be possible to make a spinoff named Evil Is Sexualised or something.

I don't really think Evil Is Sexualised would be different enough from Evil Is Sexy.

"Evil characters who are sexy" isn't a trope. "Evil characters are sexy" is. For example, this would be an almost entirely objective example of the trope. Yes, you could argue that you don't find the sexualised White Mage sexy, but the fact that her supposed Face–Heel Turn has led to her to take of all her normal clothes and wear women's underpants instead of actual skirts or trousers is undeniable.

->White Mage: (Nearly naked and holding a suggestive pose on Black Mage) Oh, Black Mage, I want you to teach me what it's like to be bad.

edited 29th Jun '11 10:17:07 AM by MangaManiac

Well, we already have Evil Costume Switch for that specific case.

Evil Costume Switch doesn't have to be sexualised. White Mage's transformation in that guest strip is both tropes.

yea, but it does include the possibility of a character's clothes became more sexualized.

So? The fact it is also Evil Costume Switch has no effect on whether its Evil Is Sexy or not. If it does count as Evil Costume Switch, that is still irrelevant.

Not sure what you're trying to get at.

Evil Costume Switch includes the possibility of a character's clothes becoming more sexualized, but is not limited to that (the clothes may simply change color/design/etc., or even become less sexualized). More importantly, Evil Costume Switch does not cover characters who start out evil, but are portrayed in a more sexualized manner than the good characters.

More importantly, it is worth noting that a single event can exemplify multiple tropes. In this case, White Mage does undergo an Evil Costume Switch. However, this new "evil" costume is not covered in skulls and spikes. Rather, it is designed to be sexually alluring because that is how "evil" characters dress: i.e., the trope Evil Is Sexy is also in play.

What I'm saying is that it's still an example of Evil Is Sexy, even if it is an example of Evil Costume Switch. White Mage could've just painted her costume grey, and it would still be an Evil Costume Switch. However, she went and made it incredibly sexualised, thus it is both tropes. Things can be more than one trope. They don't need to fit into just the one.

EDIT: Pretty much ninja'd here.

edited 29th Jun '11 10:54:33 AM by MangaManiac

So then do you just want to make a subtrope for Evil Costume Switch?

What- no! If White Mage had never changed into that costume, it would still be Evil Is Sexy. That was just one example.

edited 29th Jun '11 10:53:26 AM by MangaManiac

Ninja'd

edited 29th Jun '11 10:53:44 AM by joeyjojojuniorshabadoo

Wait, don't we already have Sensible Heroes, Skimpy Villains?

edited 29th Jun '11 10:59:58 AM by captainpat

I was waiting for someone to bring this up. That trope covers "evil is sexualized", this one is simply Exactly What It Says on the Tin and should stay subjective. (Honestly, I'd prefer to cut it altogether, but that's not going to happen). Examples such as the one you've been bringing up are simply a cross between Evil Costume Switch and Sensible Heroes, Skimpy Villains.

I'd suggest Evil Is Seductive but I think that's something different.

There still might be an objective trope in this. All we gotta find are more examples like the page quote.

How is the page quote objective?

Ah, I think I misread. But, that sort of thing, Lampshade Hangings, things where evil being sexy is acknowledged.

edited 29th Jun '11 2:17:24 PM by MangaManiac

I Second your proposal to make this Objective. Media likes to associate Evil with being Sexy.

Unfortunately, I don't have anything to bring to the table in Examples.

Again: the idea of "evil being portrayed as sexier then good" is covered in Sensible Heroes, Skimpy Villains, and possibly other tropes as well. Evil Is Sexy is not one of those tropes - it's more or less Sexy Villains, a concept that is inherently subjective. I personally feel the page could use some help in that "sexy villains" sounds terribly general, but changing it into a copy of a trope we have just to get it out of the subjective heap isn't a good way to handle things.

Neither am I, actually, but it's not a battle worth fighting IMO.

edited 30th Jun '11 12:04:47 AM by nrjxll

Look, if it's just "sexy villain" I'm really not sure it's actually a trope.

'I don't really think Evil Is Sexualised would be different enough from Evil Is Sexy.'

Sexualisation can be achieved through a conscious decision on the part of the author. Whether something is sexy is up to the viewer. They're related, certainly, but they're different angles.

edited 30th Jun '11 4:06:52 AM by halfmillennium

"It's fairly obvious when evil is designed to be sexy." - Manga Maniac

Tempting Fate much? Don't be so sure.

Often times viewers misjudge the intent of the authors. This happens in the context of the message or the style, so it could probably happen in the context of the characters' attractiveness. In theory the "it's obvious, this character was designed to be sexy" assumption could be used in almost any context. Who gets to decide when that assumption is reasonable and when it's not?

If we can make this at all objective, it should be limited to when the message is explicity referred to, such as in the Image Links section's Sinfest example. That would most certainly cut down on the number of examples though. Your Mileage May Vary on whether that is a good thing or a bad thing.

I'd back it.