Split!!!: Stop Helping Me

This really bugs me.

The Video Games section of Stop Helping Me mainly contains player reactions, and player reactions are supposed to be subjective. No matter of the reaction is near-universal or limited to a small group, it's still subjective.

The main page of Stop Helping Me contains in-universe reactions from characters toward other characters. These are objective.

There's a very clear line between a player reaction and an in-universe reaction from a character, and there are plenty of examples from both sides, so why can't these be different tropes? One trope should be the subjective trope that contains all player reactions to the annoying Exposition Fairy. The other trope would be the in-universe reaction that a character gives another character who is trying to help.

Support.

No More Tutorial? Stop The Tutorial? I was going to use "tips," but that sounds the same as Stop Helping Me.

Support the split as well. I came to this trope looking at it real quick while searching for examples to link into a story of mine explaining something. The definition and examples threw me off at first about which one was it and it just seems better suited as two separate tropes.

Its definition is actually better suited to the subjective video game trope, since that's what it was originally written for - the trope predates the current YMMV / Subjective Trope preoccupation by quite a long way.

It would look better split. For some reason, the Video Game link at the top just makes it look like someone missed a bit. A lot of the New Media examples belong with the video games as well.

edited 20th Jun '11 2:36:35 PM by FantiSci

Support.

Sounds good to me.

@Fanti Sci: Yeah, we should keep the subjective reactions to the trope's current definition, while writing something different for in-universe reactions.

We should probably figure out if there are more video game wicks or otherwise. The one with less should be split off, to make it easier. At first glance, it looks like video games are in the minority, but I didn't actually count anything.

We should also figure out if said Video Game wicks are player reactions or in-universe reactions, since there are a few in-universe reactions mixed in with the player reactions on the video games section.

• bump* So, any other ideas for a new title for whatever we decide to split off?

*bump* again

Well, there will be objective uses in Video Games like in any other media, for when characters react within the story to their Exposition Fairies. A Portal 2 example comes to mind (although I don't know if anyone bothered to add it to the page), when the automated announcer tells you that since the timer for the nuclear meltdown has failed, it will blow up the facility in two minutes anyway, to avoid the uncertainty of not knowing when you're going to die.

I think that one can be marked as Invoked.

*Necrobump*. This is a major issue. It can't be left alone.

edited 23rd Sep '11 8:57:42 AM by WaxingName

I think you're clear to do the split.

In fairness, "Stop Helping Me" was originally the video game version, so I'd be inclined to split off anything that's not a VG into a different trope. That's my gut instinct. Logically, the title "Stop Helping Me" makes more sense for the non-VG examples, since so many characters actually mention something like the phrase "Stop Helping Me!" The most sensible decision would be to count the wicks (Video Game wicks versus Non-Video Game wicks) since whatever is split off is going to need to be renamed on every page, but just counting that could take us all week.

Suggestions:

Video Games incarnation: Annoying Ally, Idiotic Ally, Unwanted Assistance / Unwarranted Assistance, Rage Inducing Assistance, Useless Help, Unsupportive Support, Hopeless Help, Sabotage Support

Non-VG examples: Annoying Ally (again), Millstone Support Agency, Hopeless Help (again), Well Intentioned Sabotage

Any use?

edited 23rd Sep '11 10:33:08 AM by FantiSci

I disagree. Video Games may be the only place where this occurs in real life, because nobody is foolish enough to trust contemporary A.I.s with anything important, but the Allegedly Helpful AI is common in Science Fiction (especially the comedic variety).

Which point do you disagree with? I thought I was just dithering out loud... I automatically think that the original name, trope and write up should stick together, with the "offshoot" entries getting a new name and write up, but sometimes that's not the most logical course of action.

I disagree that what's being called "the video game version" is video-game specific. A.I. Is a Crapshoot, after all. Basically, I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think it should have been limited to video games in the first place.

I'm fine with splitting off the non-AI-related examples.

Nope, sorry...still not following you. The video games were only split off because there were so many of them. Or were you talking about something else?

From the original YKTTW:

YKTTW...You're playing a video game, and one character - usually a Ninja Butterfly or a party member (but can be the playing character, if they're annoying enough) - is not only so irritating that they make you grind your teeth, but manage to hamper the actual gameplay? Either they're unpredictable and unreliable in battle or interrupt/talk so constantly that they break your concentration (or just shred your patience). They affect the actual player rather than the player's character. The big offender in my eyes is Angie, from Trauma Center. It's a frustrating game at the best of times, but Angie's constant mewling of "Doctor!" makes me want to attack her with the scalpel.

The issue here is a subjective trope versus an objective one. That YKTTW — and the write up for SHM - is subjective, and totally restricted to new media (for example, Clippy) and video games. The actual main page examples are all objective - a character finally loses the rag at a "helpmate" who's more of a hindrance (Hey, maybe "Hindering Helpmate" would work?). Hence the call for a split — there are two totally different tropes involved. The subjective trope certainly has its place (just look at all the examples that go largely uncontested), but the objective one needs its own write up.

I think I have to agree with you. If Stop Helping Me was originally subjective, then keep the subjective examples on that page and split the objective ones off into Hindering Helpmate (or a similar name, given that one fits the situation so well).

I'm okay with that. It also keeps the dialogue title from being the main name.