Thoughts about Naruto crossover?

I'm currently beginning work on a Naruto fanfic that's a minor crossover with Tsukihime/rest of that verse, in that the Kyubi's chakra gives Naruto a close equivalent to the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception. The obvious initial problem is that that power is so insanely unbalanced, but I think there are some ways to fix that; for one thing, many to most of the fights in the early series are not going to be to the death, and I think I can find a way to make him very reluctant to use it in the first place. Any random thoughts are appreciated; I'm just going to post periodic updates here.

I have two possible ways to start the series. The mechanism I'm thinking of for the M Eo DP is that it is more active as Naruto draws more of the Kyubi's chakra, and that chakra kind of tries to escape; hence, I can reasonably turn it on when he's badly injured (Kyubi's chakra is what gives him the healing factor), when he's just done something big with his own chakra, like a massive shadow clone jutsu (Kyubi's chakra attempts to fill in the space left behind), and (duh) when he actually draws on Kyubi's chakra and goes into red-aura mode. I'm thinking of having him discover it in one of two ways: either there's a non-canon episode in backstory where he gets beaten up by two drunk ninja as the Fox, who immediately get pwned by Sandaime but he's badly enough injured to have a hospital scene similar to the one in canon Tsukihime, or it manifests when he first uses the massive shadow clone jutsu in the fight with Mizuki, and he uses it against him. The first allows me to change his personality around a bit beforehand, in probably-helpful ways, but the second allows me to have him fairly traumatized by killing Mizuki, which helps with holding back the Deus Ex Machina. Any thoughts?

Sorry kind of long but here are details i figure should be mentioned and a few recomendations.

First I'd say just give him the real eyes of death perception he could probably be made to qualify easily due to the extra soul.

From what I know of the nasuverse the mystical eyes of death perception could in theory exist for Naruto. It basically has two to three requirements that he could easily be made to meet.

1. The user must have some kind of special sight (Tohno/Nanaya Shiki) already or an origin of "void" like Ryougi shiki which shouldn't naturally happen since in the Nasuverse the "origin" is basically a persons subconcious instincts. Thus unless something wierd happens a "void" origin would result in an abortion.

2. You have to die and see "akasha" which is basically where thigns come from and where they go when they die. Basically a near-death experience but closer to the death part. Basically your near death experience is dead enough to stare into the afterlife. 3. You have to survive.

Tohno Shiki survives because Akiha is using half of her life force or in Naruto verse tersm chakra to sustain him. Ryougi survives because her families super power is a dual gender split personality(one male one female) and instead of Shiki dying her other (male) personality SHIKI died resulting in her losing the ability to recognize her memories as hers(actually not sure if it lasts haven't figured that out from the anarchaic order.

Since the Shinigami was used in the sealing of Kyubi that could probably substitute for the "void origin" connection. His nature isn't void but he was "touched" by it(in a touched by vorlons sense)So the only issue if the die part.

Tohno Shiki "died" from the stab wound while Ryougi Shiki died from.I think it was a car accident.

Anyway if you keep that part canon the death part should be easy you just need to have him get severly injured like in a lot of the somebody tried to kill Naruto as a kid fan fictions and kyubi's regenration saved him(actually the uzumaki kekkai genkai according to relatively recent chapters of the Naruto manga it just requires chakra to use which Kyubi and Naruto have a shit load of) back stories. This could eitehr be the drunk ninjas or Mizuki.

This just leaves the survival issue which if you use the examples of the two cannon mystic eyes of death perception users would either be A. Kyubi gives Naruto part of its chakra to keep him alive. B. One of the two personalities(technically four if you count the seals security measuresa.k.a. a "clone" of Minato Namikaze and Kushina Uzumaki (Kyubi's previous host until Madara Unsealed it)) inside Naruto dies resulting in either Kyubi free naruto, Kyubi as naruto, or a Naruto that's persona merged with Kyubis, or the ones in the spoiler.

Obviously if you keep the Nasuverse parts cannon this would require either a very complicated incase of death fail safe or a Kyubi that isn't antagonistic towards Naruto. Then again the Yondaime is probably skilled enough to make the seal do that.

My first recomendation would be that Naruto and Kyubi strike some kind of deal along the lines of "Kyubi suplies chakra for Naruto and Naruto agrees to help get rid of Madara Uchiha." He's an enemy of both of them and they have the perfect tool to get rid of him which Kyubi probably wouldn't be able to use thus letting Nartuo die and stealing its out of the question.

Alternatively Naruto could just kill Kyubi (or his father could have placed some kind of "Kyubi gets killed instead fail safe" if naruto is the victim of an attempted murder that would kill him without massive reegneration that would require a shit load of Kyubi's cahkra)thus allowing him to use its chakra without the extra personality influencing him. Assuming he can percieve its death(some beings are simply too different for a human to see the death off). Although considering Kyubi and the other Tailed Beasts birth this would probably result in more unwanted guests if it can be killed correctly.

Alternatively one of the two fail safes could "die" instead but that would probably cause a memory blend if my theorys correct which would definately screw with nartuo's mind since the only non broken option for a memory blend your be Kushina a.k.a. his mother. Flying Thunder God plus Mystic Eyes of death Perception would be too much if the sacfirice caused its memeory to blend into Naruto's

Sort of like Roa's mind rapes of Tohno Shiki plus Ryougi shiki's over dramatic (hese don't feel like my memories thing.)

Although tat might be a little too much mind screw for Naruto to handle which is why I didn't even suggest the foxes memories leaking in.

As for the Hax factor of the eyes I'd recommend going closer to Ryougi Shiki from Kara No Kyouki(minus the "third persona hax"). The eyes basically have two limits. 1. How much the user can comprehend before "Shit brain melty" in Tohno Shiki's case and "damn it I have to glare harder if I want to see its lines. Where are they?" in Ryougi Shiki's case.

2. The user has to recognise the target as "living". Things without a "gaiain concept of death or something like that are immune because there too incomprehensible basically.

In Tsukihime Tohno Shiki isn't really made right for the eyes. To but it in computer terms he has the program but he's using the wrong hardware and or opperating system. Ryugi Shiki doesn't have the strain since she has the right hardware.

To put it in perspective Tohno Shiki almost goes blind at times while Ryuogi rutinely targets things that would probably be too advanced for Tohno to even target.

For instance she say lines on an invisible psychic attack and killed the same attackers disease(I think it was a tumor) instead of killing the attacker. Actually unless you count the girl whose wierd ghost copy she killed that decided to commit suicide Ryugo Shiki really only killed two "people" from what I remember. So that would work better for a Naruto thats hesitant to kill.

Since jutsus come from chakra it should be easy for Naruto to sub-conciously percieve them as "living". Which basically would allow him to negate most jutsus. The only possible issue would be clones but due to their nature they probably shouldn't have the "dots" which would give away the whole chakra copy thing.

If Lee could pass with taijutsu Naruto could probably get accepted into the ninja ranks just from having the ability to negate jutsu and destroy anything. Clones or not.

I don't remember if its cannon or just a common fanfic cliche but I sould just see Sasuke and Naruto in an academy spar and Sasuke using the great fireball technique for some reason. Assuming you have the drunk ninja "kill him" enough to trigger the dead enough for death eyes before he graduates.

Cue Naruto taking a kunai or other bladed weapon and stabing into the fireball causing it to cease to be. (assuming he gets the eyes that early).

Also I can just see this Naruto killing Neji's caged Bird Seal just to shut him up and then threatening to kill his chakra coils or kekkai genkai if he doesn't surrender.

Also I recommend getting rid of or limiting the shadow clones if you keep the eyes of death perception close to nasuverse cannon.

They would make things too confusing. Since the eyes of death don't work with ranged attacks. Then again that could also be useful so Naruto can actually use taijutsu if a shadow clone counts as a ranged attack but if so I'd have him go with quality over quantity.

But considering the death eyes hax I'd have Nartuo focus mostly on that as a negation ability since as you mentioned even the downgraded version in Tsukihime is hax and Shiki is probably nowhere near shinobi level or heck Nauto's stamina. Simply put nartuo's old skills plus death Eyes gives a huge chance of a god mode sue.

With just the eyes there still hax but Naruto still has to manually cut the lines or stab the dots which should be tricky for some of the faster enemies(assuming you keep the eyes cannon) and while regeneration doesn't work replacement parts do so something like Orochimaru and Sasori ammoung others could still be a threat.

Actually Orochimaru is probably a Nero Chaos/ Roa fusion that would probably need a dot stab to deal with. Also if you go with the original version of the eyes of death perception (Kara no Kyoukai came out first) getting rid of the curse seal should be possible.

edited 16th Jun '11 7:04:34 PM by Dracul

Thanks for the thoughts. I'm probably going to change around the MEoDP quite a bit; I don't know Nasuverse canon well enough to follow it closely, still being in the middle of Tsukihime and not having read anything else, and in any event I'm trying to limit the Nasuverse elements other than MEoDP due to the difference in tone between the stories.

I hadn't been aware that the Eyes didn't work with ranged attacks. Thanks for noting that. I may end up changing it, as I had kind of visualized Naruto starting to use senbon habitually once he got to the point where he could see the points, or I may not. Heck, that makes for a pretty good limitation. I can't have him one-shot-killing Orochimaru the first time they meet; that would push things too far out of canon for my meager skills of analysis, since it would invalidate, you know, every plot point that happens afterwards.

I did have him making a deal with Kyuubi, that was more along the lines of: if you maliciously hit me with MEoDP whenever you can, as I'm sure you'd love to do just to mess with me, I'll go insane, start killing things, and eventually some high-level ninja will just kill me. And then you die. So give it to me when I want it, and I'll try to make sure that after I'm old you get to a new host instead of just dying with me. (I don't know how much of the past history of the jinchuuriki and the techniques for moving the beasts between hosts Naruto will end up knowing; for one thing, I need to actually learn those.) I am planning on having basic control over when he has the eyes in the hands of the Kyuubi, or rather, having him have the eyes by default unless the Kyuubi is actively holding it back (which will show up more later).

edited 16th Jun '11 11:44:20 PM by alethiophile

You might want to check the type-moon wiki's article on the eyes of death perception if your not quite sure how it works. I'm not sure how accurate it is but that articles probably accurate enough.

Still if your giving Kyuubi control of the eyes your definately going to have to alter them a lot. Tohno Shiki's use of the eyes are fairly lmited compared to Ryougi Shiki from Kara no Kyoukai who has a habbit of killing spells. So unless the control is simply "blocking" Naruto's perception of it you have the issue of why Kyuubi hasn't "killed" the seal.

I'm not sure how cannon the Tailed Beasts dying with the jinchuriki idea is and it might just be that Naruto and the villagers think so. Or because the death God was used. Still the fact that the nine tailed beasts have been arround since close to the begining of the "ninja world" suggests that they probably outlive their hosts since there have apparently been no Tailed Beast casualties other than the Ten Tailed Beast which was apparently killed when the Sage of the Six Paths split its chakra into the Tailed Beasts.

I'm thinking its more likely that they escape if the host is dying since in a flashback Kyuubi was transfered into its second jinchuriki and the previous host was really old which suggests that she was worried the Kyuubi would get free if it wasn't moved into a new host since if it was going to die with her the only other reason to transfer it would be if they wanted to harness it as a weapon.

I got the idea about the bijuu dying when the jinchuuriki dies from Team 8, which while one of the best Naruto fanfics I've ever read openly ignores canon past a certain point (I think it's the revelation of Itachi's actual good-guy status). In retrospect, this limits its usefulness as a canon reference. Drat.

It's not actually that bad, I suppose; Kyuubi is in Naruto's power due to the seal, there has to be some leverage available that he can use.

I have a moderately-complex idea for how the eyes will work with the canon seal; basically, the Kyuubi is restricted from actually doing anything by the seal. It can push its chakra past it to empower Naruto, and in this fic that effect will also transfer to him the eyes, but it doesn't really control anything about what he does with it (except, if I understand correctly, at very high levels later on, when he starts actually transforming). I am definitely going to have the eyes able to kill seals at least, but Kyuubi is unable to act autonomously from within the seal and Naruto has precisely no incentive to kill the seal himself.

I could be wrong but considering there was a bunch of flashback chapters where Kyuubi was transfered from Mito Uzumaki(first hokage's wife) (who somehow sealed it into herself) to Kushina Uzumaki a.k.a. naruto's mother who was already a child at the time which seems to invalidate the whole needs to be a newborn idea. Then it esscaped during child birth because Madara screwed with the seal. This suggests that either the Tailed Beast can reform or that Kyuubi's first jinchuriki had a serious case of idiot ball. I'm thinking the authors literally makiing it up as he goes.

Hmm maybe the seal itself is one of the catalysts for the eyes. The Shiinigami was invoked in order to seal the Kyuubi into Naruto and these are the Mystical Eyes of Death Perception. Perhaps when Naruto uses Kyubi's chakra the seal alters it.

Actually after thinking about it having the death eyes and kyuubi's chakra linked might be a bad idea. Naruto can go up to three tails and maintain control but they seem to be tapped into through anger and influence him into a more well feral state.

Beserk rage plus the ability to annihilate just about anything that exists(so far the only things that have proven to be immune are repeating phenomenon such as tatari(even if sentient and given form no dot will appear)(or servants from fate which according to word of god can't be targeted) and entities called Ultimate Ones(alien personification of planets) such as the Crimson Moon) does not seem like a good combination unless your facing dead apostles or other zombies.

Ok I just remembered another possible issue assuming you stay close to Naruto cannon. Using too much of the Kyuubi's chakra weakens the seal if I remember correctly. Sure Naruto doesn't know that at first but Kyubi probably does.

Hmm. speaking of Kyuubi and the Tailed Beasts they would probably work well as fallen true ancestors that lost control of their blood lust.

In Tsukihime True Ancestors are copies of Crimson Moon Brunested (who is basically the spirit of the moon) that Gaia let manifest on Earth to protect it from humans. Because of this Gaia made them look like humans. The Crimson Moon placed a "seed" of itself into all true ancestors so that it can eventually be reborn if its body is somehow destroyed. Then it got killed by a sorcerer that controls parralel realities when it apparently tried to crash the moon into earth for some unexplained reason. After dying the perfect host Arcuied Brunested was born.

(Although considering that only two useable hosts ever appeared before the near extinction of the true ancestors(both of which are female, which suggest that the Crimson Moon is probably a girl despite being called King of the Moon) and one didn't show up till after it "died" and their are no pictures of the Crimson Moon other than parts where it talks through Arcuied I think the idea failed and/or that Arcuied Brunested is the actual Crimson Moon reborn but with her memories sealed away, but I'm probably wrong).

In the Naruto series Tailed Beasts were according to Madara made when the Sage of the Six Paths after sealing the Ten Tailed Beast that seemed to be an apacolyptic monster that appeared from nowhere into himself and before dying split the Ten Tailed Beast's chakra and then created the moon to trap its body.

Other than the part about that making no sense their origins are fairly similar. The Ten Tailed Beast could be a really powerful Arcuied level true ancestor perhaps even the Crimson Moon that gave into its blood lust or Gaia could have skiped the whole model them after humans idea and just went "Hey Brunested can you send a kaiju to help deal with the humans? K Thanks."

Alternatively Madara could have heard things wrong and assumed "copies of Crimson Moon" meant "Crimson Moon was split".

It would be rather funny to just imagine it.

Naruto -"Ok so that furballs Kyuubi so who are you?"

Crimson Moon - "Crimson Moon Brunested King of the Moon. The Ultimate Being of the Lunar Sphere."

Naruto - "Ok so how did you get sealed in me?"

Crimson Moon - "Technically I'm sealed in furball overthere. Well not quite sealed. I implanted my conciousness into it to take over when the time is right. I didn't get captured like this idiot."

Kyuubi - "How dare you mock me? I am the Kyuubi no Kitsune."

Crimson Moon - "Are all my fragments so rude and noisy?"

And then Crimson Moon switches to being as naieve as Arcuied.

edited 18th Jun '11 2:39:55 AM by Dracul

That sounds interesting and might work, but I'm probably not going to cross over with Nasuverse to that extent.

I just remembered: when Naruto is training with Jiraiya, the first time that he gets into the sewer-like mental projection where he meets the Kyuubi, he is falling to his death and Kyuubi mentions that he is willing to give Naruto his chakra on demand because if he doesn't Naruto will die, and that will kill Kyuubi as well. So there's the canon bit. It's also a common bit of fanon that a jinchuuriki can release the seal of their own will, causing the Tailed Beast to simply escape and, presumably, start rampaging again. That might fit in somewhere if circumstances become sufficiently dire (Chunin Exam Day, despite its multiple issues, handled that in a way that I found quite entertaining).

I did some more research but can't post the links because the accounts new. Apparently Kushina thought Kyuubi would die if it was placed back into her but the Minatodecided to seal it into Naruto to use against Madara.

It's rather odd. I'm starrting to thing its not that the tailed beast dies when the host does but rather the personality. Or because Kyubi has half its chakra sealed in the death god. It could also be that thats what Kyubi thinks would happen

That would explain why there was never a tailed beast casualty despite their being nine for since before recorded history. they simply kept reincarnating each time they were killed.

There's still the issue of how the seal was made. The fourth designed it so that Kyubi's chakra would leak through so Naruto could use it, placed himself into it so he could repair it once and only once if it got to weak. Put a "key" on a toad to stregnthen or weaken the seal.

And apparently made it was that Naruto could go thrugh a special training to steal Kyubi's ability to control its chakra but before that drawing upon its chakra would weaken the seal.

Check the anime section under TheCorruption. Kyubi has no reason to hold back its chakra since it sees it two ways. A. If this idiot dies before I get free I could die. B. If this idiot uses too much chakra I can escape.

Long story short it has no reason to go "nah don't feel like letting you use my chakra."

So theres the seal weakening and the fact that Kyubi's chakra tends to influence Naruto. Sure Shiki goes into a beserk state but thats becuase of his anti-demon instincts not because of the eyes. Just saying if your going to tie the eyes to the seal you should probably tie it to the Shinigami. Kyubi has no reason to hold back the eyes and could just lie and tell Naruto "I don't know how you got those eyes."

It is also according to its own words a living mass of malevolence. Hmm actually after checking the naruto wiki and the manga

Chapter 497 page 16 has Kyubi telling Naruto he can't control its power because Naruto is just a mere fragment of its hatred.

I'm starting to think the I die if you die thing was Kyubi being sarcstic or rather it going "Well I'm the real one so of course were both going to die at the same time. It doesn't count if its just you that died since your just a part of me but it would look bad if I got my self beaten."

So it could either be loss of personality or Kyubi being an asshole or both.

OR alternatively if the seales tied to the body Kyubi doesn't want to have to sit in a corpse.

Hmm ok alternate idea.

As I mentioned Shiki is being animated by Akiha's life force basically his body is "dead" and produces no life on its own, essentially in Naruto terms his body doesn't produce chakra. Perhaps Naruto and Kyubi are in the same state. Naruto gained they eyes from a near death experience and Kyubi decided to not bother with escaping and decided to actually help Naruto stay alive because he finds the idea of a human with the eyes of death perception really really amusing.

Basically from Naruto's point of view Kyubi is a life suport system while from Kyubi's point of view Naruto is entertainment. Sure it could escape and start destroying things but that probably gets boring after a while and unless you make the eyes closer to the ones from Kara no Kyokai Naruto might not even have a normal human life span even with the longevity of the uzumaki line.

This also means that if you keep the transfer into a new host deal Kyubi has even less of a reason to not co-operate. He's still not naruto's friend or ally. He's a bored malevolent demon god with nothing better to do for a few decades.

This is true.

It seems that the personality of the bijuu and their chakra are separate. (It also seems like canon keeps changing this; whether or not the changes were planned ahead of time, I may eventually have to pull a Team8 and ignore some bits of canon.) I'm thinking something like this: if the jinchuuriki dies, the personality of the bijuu dies as well; however, its chakra (whatever bit was in that jinchuuriki) will later reincarnate with a new personality. The current Kyuubi doesn't want Naruto to die, because then it, for all intents and purposes, dies as well; the reincarnation is no comfort to it, because it's essentially a new entity with the same power. Therefore, it still has the incentive to give Naruto the chakra and the eyes when he needs them, lest he die. However, the eyes will, if left on for too long, cause Naruto to go insane and probably start killing stuff, and then after some significant rampage a high-level ninja will just kill him from range. Thus, the fox also has the incentive to refrain from flooding Naruto with eyes just For the Evulz.

I think I'm going to do this: the eyes are linked to the Kyuubi's chakra, but with use the chakra gradually changes him so that the eyes are inherent in him, and he starts getting them even in rest state. The Kyuubi can also turn off the eyes inherent in him, somehow; I may come up with a proper justification for this or may not. Thus, after the change the Kyuubi no longer needs to push chakra to give Naruto the eyes, he simply needs to stop blocking them. However, the same incentive matrix applies as above, so that the Kyuubi is still going to fulfill basically the same role.

I've got the first page or so written. I think I'm going to cover everything up to about Naruto's graduation in chapter one, then post it.

If I had to guess I'd say he's makng it up as he goes. I'd also guess t that Madara's plan is him copying 666 Satan. He's as inconsistant as the people incharge of the Nasuverse.

Makes sense but I feel I should warn you. The Mystical Eyes of Death Perception are serious bussiness ammoung the nasuverse fandom from what I've seen. Thats kind of why I suggested keeping them as close as possible since its already fairly easy to have Naruto qualify for the eyes. Then again the fandoms kind of small and after checking fanfiction.net it seems this ideas already came up and their were less bad reviews than I expected so your probably unlikely to run into a fan that would complain too much or less so than I expected.

Also I thought of how you can justify the chakra activating the eyes. If I remember correctly its not the eyes that matter rather a "circuit" in the brain for instance unlike say the sharingan the eyes of death can't be transplanted because it's all done in the brain the eyes are only eyes becuase humans don't possess a death organ. Perhaps Kyuubi's chakra simply switches this circuit to its on state which due to its "highly malevolent chakra and will" causes naruto's sub-conicous to have an epiphany about how everything can be destroyed so easily.

This could also be linked to why Kyyubi didn't destroy the seal. He simply doesn't have the right type of brain to see the lines and even if he did his desire too live would block his ability to percieve them. That or its concept of death is too alien to affect the world in the same way as a human user. For instance if Kyuubi had the eyes it might only target memory and personality since from its point of view amnesia is death. A human could see getting beheaded as death but from Kyyubi's point of view thats not when something dies but when the personality sepereates from the chakra.

Sort of an inversion of why ORT can't be killed by the eyes of death perception since it has no Gaian concept of death. If I remember correctly the eyes of death perception work on the lines of "If I can understand that this thign can "die" I can "kill" it." If the user doesn't view something as living or can't understand how it can be alive it can't be killed. Kyuubi would then be unable to target matter and chakra because it can't understand how it can be considered living.

Actually never mind for such a minor crossover it might just be better to say the ability is based on the eyes from tsukihime since the nasuverse has way too much philosphical nonsense to worry about.

On a side note you could probably use your senbon idea if you have naruto learn to make chakra strings or wahtever the thing puppet masters use is called since they would still be attached to him. Basically it works like this.

Have a foot long knife. You can cut a foot past arm legnth, a three foot sword can cut three feet beyond arm legnth, and a ten foot pole can hit a dot ten feet from arms legnth. basically as long as teh body is touching the weapon the ability works so since his chakra is part of him it should work. Alternatively buying custom senbon attacked to string mgiht work if the senbon and string are considered the same object.

its odd how many wierd rules exist for the ability to destroy things.

edited 20th Jun '11 5:39:41 AM by Dracul

I might well have him learn the Wind chakra technique of Asuma's that lets him extend the reach of a blade. I suppose a kunai attached to a ninja wire might work as well, but that seems a little like a cop out of the no-ranged rule.

True but their are so many rules I'm not sure anymore if its absolute. It was from the Kara no Kyoukai novels where the antagonist comments on Ryougi Shiki's abilities as something like.

"With a knife she has a range of (something) but with a sword she has a range of." Their are also a lot of retcons on stuff from that series so it could be an incorrect guess. Although i think it's word of god that the lines have to be cut by the deathe ye holder and not that they can't just be pointed out so that would probably fall under no range. For instance naruto can't go "sasuke stab "insert place here" that will be an instant kill." It won't work.

So far the only concrete rule seems to be that the eyes only work on things the user can view as "living". I had a comparison of the two sets of eyes but it took up too much space and I can't figure out how to do that hide text thing. So I just got rid of it. For instance if someone with the eyes of death sees a zombie and thinks of it as a "dead body" they won't see the lines but if they think of it as a "living corpse" their will be lines.

Meanwhile if something is outside of someones understanding of "existence" it can't be killed and yes their are things that are outside of a humans ability to comprehend the existence of such as Arcuied at full power or the antagonist of Kara no Kyoukai who has a super power that can basically be summerized as "I do not change" and who uses a piece of Buddha to upgrade that to the super power of "Seriously I don't change at all I'm like a computer page that closed but then the screen froze so it still shows up until you wait a few hours or reset the computer."

Oh and apparently its staistically impossible for more than one person to have the eyes at a time no rule against it but its unlikely to happen.

Personally I'd get rid of Naruto's wind affinity if he gets the eyes and maintains his own chakra supply as the "death link" a.k.a. he obtained a partial "void" state. Essentaially his chakra becames blank and colorless because the "wind" died.

Of course nothing would prevent him from looking like hes using wind jutsu it would just be a "blank chakra in the "shape" of a wind jutsu" a.k.a. an invisible cutting thing. Using chakra paper with the eyes of death would probably have the same effect as a wind affinity a.k.a the papper getting cut to pieces.

Oh and apparently the tailed beasts do come back after the jinchuriki's death according to a newish chapter but it takes time to do so. So maybe their like Roa only they find the nothing after death to be really uncomfortable. Now I'm wondering if a dead tailed beast can be targetted by edo tansai like the rest of Kabuto(or however his names spelt) zombie ninja army.

Hmm, I wonder if the eyes of death would register wierdly to the byakugan or other chakra observer?

Also thanks for helping me figure out why nasuverse fanfiction is so hard to find. You need an encyclopedia to keep track of each ability and how they interact. Anyway your better off ignoring everything I said. I rally only replied because I have nothing better to do.

edited 22nd Jun '11 10:03:05 AM by Dracul

Thanks for responding. I know very little about the Nasuverse, so it's good to have someone who knows it a little better.

Only on living things? In Tsukihime, at least, the lines are on everything, he cuts up a chair when he's first in the hospital and sometime in the backstory he cuts through a padlock on a door.

No I think in this case "living" is metaphorical. I've read summaries of parts of translations of interviews and stuff and there was stuff like

Ryougi can't actually kill God because God's neither living or dead. I'm thinking living means "has a definite timespan" or "has not been destroyed" or 'is capable of changing"

The first time that phrase was used was in Kara no kyoukai which is basically Tsukihimes prototype with Ryougi saying "everything in creation has a flaw. Humans don't even ned to be mentioned, Air, intent, and even time. MY eyes can see the death of things, there special just like yours. That is why I can kill anything that lives even if that thing is God."

Considering she says this while killing telekinesis I'm guessing its metaphorical. Less living and more you have to be able to comprehend that it can end.

For instance both Shiki's could probably kill a section of air creating a temporary vacum or even something as simple as turning the oxygen into carbon dioxyde. While someone with the eyes during say the roman empire would probably be unable to do so because they can't comprehend the idea that air even changes.

For instance in a sequal to Tsukihime there is a vampire called Tatari who has the ability to appear as and materialize the fears and rumors of a community.

It doesn't summon them it literally becomes them taking multiple bodies. for instance if Tatari appared in Konoha it would probably take the form of a Kyubi possessed Naruto.

Centuries ago Althrouge Brunested(half-shinso half-deadapstle basically the last otehr member of arcuieds species) and a magus turned vampire called Zephia Eltnam Oberon made some kind of deal or something like that. Basically Althrouge made a "Crimson Moon" appear did something to allow Zephia to transform into Tatari(the word literally means curse) he's allso called Night of wallachia, and appear in pre-calculated areas until the next "Crimson Moon" appears 1000 years later.

During the time between that Zephia or Tatari isn't "living" but a comlex magical phenomenon. Shiki could kill the bodies but can't dot stab Tatari because it's just a materialized rumor. It doesn't "exist" as a unique entity until the next crimson moon appears.

Killing Tatari before then is sort of like killing wind. Sure you can but its just going to start again later. Until Arcuied summoned the crimson moon(literally a full moon that appeared crimson not to be comfused with Crimson Moon Brunested the first vampire unless it is I'm not sure about that part) Zephia didn't exist.

Then after Zephia is killed a certain magician takes it's "soul" before it departs to reincarnate and uses it to make a familiar with Tatari's power only it has its own form. Yet it also views it self as tatari so it technically survived being dot stabbed. Oh and it or another vampire that inherited Tatari that came from a parralel dimension(yeah it gets confusing) summoned a copy of Zephia.

If I remmber correctly theirs a part where Roa did some stuff after being dot-stabbed while falling appart. If Shiki tried to stab it at that point it wouldn't do anything because Roa was already dead. Actually speaking of Roa a line he has when summoned as a tatari clone was basically "What I'm alive? Did he miss? Hmm, no the vampire called Roa is most certainly dead but then how? Ahh I see someone is replaying me from the memory of this land?"

Other than Tatari when it comes to things that are partially or completely immune to the eyes of death theirs the antagonist of kara no Kyoukai, The Servants from Fate Stay Night, and the Types.

Araya Souren the anatgonist from Kn K survives being targeted by the eyes because he has "stillness" as a superpower. B Asically in computer terms he's one of those programs that takes forever to delete.

Servants are copies of legendary and mythical heros summoned by a ritual called heavens fell. A hero upon dying gets placed in a "place" called the Throne of Heros as a Heroic Spirit and is removed from time or the cycle of souls. During heavnes fell copies of these Heroic Spirits are summoned and once they die the information they accumulate does not return to the original who remains unchanged. If summoned again a normal servant will not retain memory of previous summonings. Apparently some kind of record is kept but the Heroic Spirit gains no new experiences. If a serrvant retains memories it means it was somehow summoned before dying.

Shiki never fought one but in interviews Nasu says he can't kill them. I'm not sure if it's just that he can't kill the copies or the actual Heroic Spirits but its basically this.

1. IF Shiki can kill a Servant the Heroic spirit can still be resummoned. 2. Being an existence removed from time Heroic Spirits already experienced every event that they will ever experience so their death has already been experienced. 3. Even though they can't appear before their life being removed from time means these Heroic Spirits litterally always exist in that worlds history. In computer terms their part of the operating system.

Next are the Types such as Type-Moon(crimson Moon Brunested) and Type-Mercury (a wierd metal spider centaur thing in south america thats just sitting their and causing the area to turn into crystals). Types incidently are also called Aristoteles or Ultimate Ones. A Type is the supreme existence of its home planet basically the ultimate lifeform to live on that planet.

Their bodies can be destroyed but they lack a " Gaian concept of death" meaning their immune to the eyes. Other than Type-Moon (who Arcuied is a clone of) Types do not use the same concepts as an earth lifefrom. Their concepts of self and knowledge are even diferent from that of a humans. Baiscally thier eldirich abominations.

My personal theory is that their immunity to the eyes is because their existence is tied to their home world. So killing Type-Mercury would require killing Mercury.

Arcuieds body could be destroyed during the day but under a full moon she has no lines. She's not a type but she's one of two possible hosts for crimson Moon Brunested who is a Type so during a full moon reality basically goes "The death you are trying to see is not avaliable. Please try again or press one for more options."

Alternatively it could just be that tehy have a concept of death but that its too different from that of an Earthly death.

It's not type level but lets use Kyubi as an example. The rest from here on is just my personal theory. He says he will die if Naruto does. Assuming this is true and not linked to when he calls Naruto "A mere fragment of my hatred." means that Kyubi has a different sense of death than a human because tailed beasts ressurect. It's concept of death is closer to the human concept of amensia. If a body is destroyed the persona will leave the world but the persona can remain if its chakra is contained so "death" isn't linked to the bodies destruction. Meanwhile Kyubi "knows" it will die and probably that its chakra will remain. This means from its point of view its chakra isn't "living" as well but something a life attaches too.

He might be able to dot stab a person by basically "shutting down their conciousness" but would be unable to target say its seal because while it has information it has no persona. Trying to see its death would be like a mind reader trying to read the mind of a brain dead person. It would not work.

Of course if this works both ways it would mean that Naruto could only kill Kyubi by replacing it with a new Kyubi or spliting it into "smaller" tailed beasts. Let's say he cut off one of its tails. Kyubi would probably just create a new tail like how Arcuied literally made a new body and the chakra of the tail would probably leak back into Kyubi like a shadow clones memories.

However if Naruto focused he could dot-stab the tails chakra and remove the "memories, will, and personality" making it free chakra that would either be added to his supply or form into a new tenant while Kyubi would recover but remain permanently weakened unless it manages to reabsorb the now neutral chakra. Sort of like how the Ten Tailed Beast is "dead" for as long as the Tailed beasts exist.

Wild Mass guessing on Kyubi's conept of death is mostly over or atleast the theory part.

Anyway speaking of tailed beasts I had another thought. In the Nasuverse a demon is a creature that causes a distrotion of the laws of nature. There are two kinds natural to earth those that were demons from the begining such as the ancestors of the Tohno line and devils. Devils are a force called into existence and molded by the wishes of humanity. Not creatures but curses that obtained form and psyche.

He hasn't appered in anything beyond side material stuff but their is a vampire thats loyal to Arcuied and works for teh same part of the church as Ciel(he likes artifacts thats why he joined, not sure why he was allowed to though)called Merem Solomon during his human life was something called a planet terminal. This meant he could talk to animals and materialize people's wishes. Naturally his village cut off his limbs and made him a god so that they don't lose this power. Then Crimson Moon Brunested passed by and challanged the village to a game. They would imagine monsters for it to fight and if they lose it would kill them. Merem died from overuse of tis power. Apparently he couldn't just go "No I don't want to make any more demons for you people". Anyway after that Brunested ressurected Merem and told him that he was now free and could imagine demons to replace his limbs.

Anyway Merem has four demon familiars that act as his limbs. They can continue to live if merem dies but are loyal to him because he can ressurect them if they die. Each demon has its own abilities that are seperate from Merems.

Anyway I had this thought. What if Lee's limbs could not be fixed and Naruto gave him tailed beast chakra to create demons that can act as his limbs like Merem? I'm not sure if it would be annoying or ammusing.

edited 24th Jun '11 12:05:18 PM by Dracul

Okay, I've published the first chapter here.

I was originally intending to have Naruto's entire Academy career up to the confrontation with Mizuki in the first chapter, but it was getting insanely long. So I just tried to establish the various points of departure; I'll go for pieces of actual Naruto plot later on.

I liked the whole everything falling appart thing it kind of reminds me of Shiki's "I'll show you what it means to kill something" speech and explains why Kyubi is such a huge asshole if you keep it completely evil. Hard to be good after several hundred years of watching everything crumble away. After seeing hundreds of thousands of things rot you probably either have to go mad or evil.

I'm guessing since the lines were unknown your probably not keeping Kushina's jinchuriki status.

Did Kushina ever really call on the Kyuubi's chakra? I have no idea, myself; I haven't gotten to the bits of Naruto canon that actually tell you stuff about Kushina. If I am gathering information correctly from Narutopedia and so forth, the seal that Minato used on the Kyuubi was actually fairly special in the way it allowed mixing of the two chakras; if it becomes a problem, I'll just handwave that Minato's seal is the only one that allows the eyes to leak through.

It's true, the actually seeing things crumble away is a pain, but there are ways of dealing with it (the Kokuangyo no Jutsu being one, et cetera). The way I'm using it, having the eyes actually messes with a human's sanity in a Things Man Was Not Meant To Know sort of way; the Kyuubi is not subject to this effect. I'm probably going to go with a Kyuubi who is, at base, evil, but whose incentives match up to Naruto's at the moment; the dynamic might be akin to Poisonous Friend, except that Kyuubi doesn't have much freedom of action on its own and must convince Naruto to do whatever it recommends.

In Naruto canon, it's stated that the test we see Naruto taking and failing was his third attempt to graduate from the academy. However, the others in his class (the Rookie Nine) all seem to be the same age as him, and it's never mentioned that any of them failed any previous tests, nor that Naruto ever repeated years. Does anyone have an idea of how that reconciles?

I'm thinking that he simply tried taking the test early twice. Considering that Itachi graduated at 7 years old while kakashi graduated at 5 years old I'm guessing its possible to both enter and test early that or its a plot hole. Probably a little of both considering how ridiculous it sounds since in addition to graduating a % Kakashi became a chuin at six Thats ridiculous even by child soldier standards. Although Naruto would probably have passed early if he had a lower chakra suppply or was less of an idiot.

What I want to know is why he was raised as an orphan when he had both a Godfather a.k.a. Jiraiya and and older cousin a.k.a. Tsunade Senju granddaughter of Kyubi's first jinchuriki Mito Uzumaki.

Even if Jiraiya was busy the third could have just ordered Tsunade to return to watch Naruto as a child.

Actually speaking of relatives how did nobody figure out Naruto's heritage. His last names Uzumaki and that family was apparently one of the important clans of a village K Onoha was alligned to and the friendship was so important they added that villages symbol to the ninja uniforms as a reminder of it.

Or even something as simple as one of the parents thinking 'Hey doesn't he act a lot like that annoying girl from Uzushiogakure? What was her name again?" "I think it was Kushina Uzumaki." 'Hey isn't the brats last name Uzumaki?"

Yeah I'm just going with if at first it makes no sense assume that the authors just making it up as he goes.

edited 26th Jun '11 3:02:04 AM by Dracul

Thanks. For the purposes of this I'm doing something else with the extra tries, so that was the theory I was going on.

It says several times in various places that you can use the Sharingan for genjutsu as well as the usual Super-Reflexes and Mega Manning. Does anyone know how that actually works? I don't think any of it actually shows up in canon other than Tsukuyomi, which is Mangekyou only.

Next chapter is up here, now with actual Naruto plot.

I checked the Naruto wiki and it seems to be a kind of hypnotism involving implanting suggestions of thoughts and actions into a persons head through eye contact. Which makes you wonder how much of an idiot ball the Uchiha had if they tried to rebel instead of just going. "Operation Hypnotise our way to rulership."

I don't think they actually show anyone using this except a probably unreleated almost undetectable non-eye contact mind control technique used by Shisui(the guy Itachi killed) and later Danzo(using Shisui's eye).

Wait a minute the guy with undetectable mind control that does not require eye contact gets himself killed by the guy that later slaughters their clan.

Is he trying to make Itachi seem more hax or is he just not thinking this through?

I vote the later.

Well, I don't know that much about the circumstances in which Itachi killed Shisui, but it's at least believable that it was from behind or some such in a way that preempted the mind control. And Shisui's (later Danzo's) ability was special; the usual Sharingan genjutsu were actually genjutsu, and so probably couldn't be counted on to work long-term on powerful ninjas.

New chapter here.