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Ettina Since: Apr, 2009
#1: Jun 14th 2011 at 5:55:38 PM

OK, I have a character who ressurrected her stillborn, trisomy 18 son. He's now 8 years old, and the witch's council has just discovered him and want to kill him (the spell used to ressurrect him is forbidden). But I'm having trouble fleshing out their reasoning for why his kind should die.

Several points:

  • his kind have a spirit being serving as life support, the person and the spirit being take turns being in control

  • many of his kind have disabilities related to the reason they were stillborn, but not all (eg some had birthing accidents or whatever instead of congenital malformations) - this particular boy, due to trisomy 18, is profoundly cognitively disabled and has severe physical disabilities

  • the spirit being drinks people's breath to survive, this can be done without harming the person

  • the spirit being is telepathic and able to project thoughts/emotions to a limited extent

  • the spirit being doesn't think or act humanlike, not evil but alien, and this may lead to misunderstandings

So, what reasons could you think of for why these kids should be killed and/or not made in the first place?

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.
CrystalGlacia from at least we're not detroit Since: May, 2009
#2: Jun 14th 2011 at 6:04:41 PM

Maybe it's an instinctual reaction not unlike the kind that drives the Uncanny Valley, the reaction that is said to be the basis behind racism and other forms of discrimination.

Perhaps the others find the child deeply unnatural, and thus threatening.

There's the disability, too. The others probably felt that the stillbirth was nature's way of saying that this child should not have lived, and they find the reviving to be a sin against nature, not to mention it's a forbidden spell.

And then there's the fact that they likely banned that spell for a reason: reviving the dead is very likely to bring the topic of ethics into the picture. They very likely banned the spell because they saw reviving the dead as a violation of natural laws or similar. Combine that with the three reasons listed above, and you've got a controversial issue here.

Looking over these, these are basically the reasons why I would find an issue like this controversial, to the point that I would call it a form of child abuse to use an illegal necromancy spell to revive a child that even nature rejected. To me, it just feels wrong on so many levels.

edited 14th Jun '11 6:13:22 PM by CrystalGlacia

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."
Ettina Since: Apr, 2009
#3: Jun 14th 2011 at 6:23:28 PM

What's a sin against nature? I've heard that phrase used a lot, but I have no clue what it's actually supposed to mean.

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.
CrystalGlacia from at least we're not detroit Since: May, 2009
#4: Jun 14th 2011 at 6:32:00 PM

Nature has its own ways of saying that something should not be, and miscarriage and stillbirths are two of them. I think a sin against nature is essentially ignoring what nature is trying to tell you, that this baby should have never existed.

I guess I wanted to say just a sin in general, but then that has religious connotations that could be taken as a reference to God or something, I'm not Christian, and your witches may worship a different deity.

And, about that- not everyone on that witches' committee is going to have exactly the same view or argument as to why this child should die. That was just me talking about my opinions on the issue, m'kay?

edited 14th Jun '11 6:32:35 PM by CrystalGlacia

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."
Ettina Since: Apr, 2009
#5: Jun 14th 2011 at 7:48:23 PM

I still don't understand.

Wouldn't it be just as unnatural to resuscitate someone who's stopped breathing? I don't think I want my witches' council to be opposed to ordinary medical interventions...

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.
Zolnier The Odd Lad from A suspiciously dull shop Since: Apr, 2009
The Odd Lad
#6: Jun 14th 2011 at 7:54:10 PM

Do you plan to kill the kid of?

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.
Ettina Since: Apr, 2009
#7: Jun 14th 2011 at 7:55:41 PM

No. I'm not sure exactly how it'll end, but I'm pretty sure he'll survive.

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.
Zolnier The Odd Lad from A suspiciously dull shop Since: Apr, 2009
The Odd Lad
#8: Jun 14th 2011 at 8:00:26 PM

If the spirit was benevolent but had odd ideas of being being kind I wouldn't blame the witches for wanting the child destroyed.

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.
Ettina Since: Apr, 2009
#9: Jun 15th 2011 at 4:37:33 AM

Anyone have any more ideas?

Crystal Glacier, I hope I haven't offended you, I just honestly have no idea why people would think of nature as dictating stuff instead of just existing. That's not how I think, and if I'm going to write a character like that I'll need to learn how to think that way.

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.
CrystalGlacia from at least we're not detroit Since: May, 2009
#10: Jun 15th 2011 at 4:44:53 AM

I don't really mind.

You could apply that mindset to someone in the council or something. I don't know. I was just offering my opinions.

If this is in the final product, just know that I'm not going to be siding with the mom. I'll leave it at that.

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."
Zolnier The Odd Lad from A suspiciously dull shop Since: Apr, 2009
The Odd Lad
#11: Jun 15th 2011 at 4:45:55 AM

Maybe they think the child's mind will be destroyed by the spirit?

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.
Ettina Since: Apr, 2009
#12: Jun 15th 2011 at 10:13:57 AM

But how would that justify killing him? They can't remove the spirit without killing the kid.

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.
Zolnier The Odd Lad from A suspiciously dull shop Since: Apr, 2009
The Odd Lad
#13: Jun 15th 2011 at 10:23:32 AM

They could think the spirit is only pretending that it's not malevolent.

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.
NotSoBadassLongcoat The Showrunner of Dzwiedz 24 from People's Democratic Republic of Badassia (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Puppy love
The Showrunner of Dzwiedz 24
#14: Jun 15th 2011 at 10:30:28 AM

Retard possessed by a demon? Kill it with fire, twice, just to be sure.

"what the complete, unabridged, 4k ultra HD fuck with bonus features" - Mark Von Lewis
Ettina Since: Apr, 2009
#15: Jun 15th 2011 at 1:46:42 PM

Any more suggestions?

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.
LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#16: Jun 15th 2011 at 4:05:39 PM

Is there, perhaps, a history of this sort of spell ending badly? If they have precedent that such a person is or could be a danger they might have a knee-jerk reaction to stop further ones being made.

Be not afraid...
Zolnier The Odd Lad from A suspiciously dull shop Since: Apr, 2009
The Odd Lad
#17: Jun 15th 2011 at 8:15:29 PM

Maybe some spirits of this type are evil, and the witches suspect this individual is just hiding it?

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#18: Jun 18th 2011 at 5:34:29 AM

A culture of strength, perhaps? They may see the child as dead weight. Alternatively, it may be seen as a profound violation of the spirit drafted into being this kid's artificial lung. You know, like animal rights. Its bizarre, alien behaviour could be taken as signs of distress. Or, if the spirits are treated as equals to humanity, it could be an international incident just waiting to happen. Finally, if it's a nature-spirit or something, cramming it into some human could result in nasty environmental effects.

What's precedent ever done for us?
anacharis Since: Apr, 2010
#19: Jun 25th 2011 at 12:41:23 PM

does the spell only work on stillborn infants? or can it work on adults or older children, too?

My first thought is that it's some sort of religious conspiracy: the Witches' Council are lying to someone about the Afterlife- whatever form (if any) that takes in your work. Someone who's been dead and resurrected- even someone who's developmentally disabled, and who only experienced death for a brief time as an infant- could expose their lies, and we can't have that, now can we.

edited 25th Jun '11 12:44:13 PM by anacharis

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