So much Natter : Acceptable Nationality Targets

Seriously. This thing almost looks like /int/ threw up all over it. Especially in the United States Of America section.

Edit: Sorry, screwed up the title thing. Courtesy link: Acceptable Nationality Targets

edited 8th Jun '11 10:34:32 PM by PadurKaril

Thread title fixed.

Thanks!

So..... does anyone feel like something should be done with this?

Is killing it an option? Because it's clearly only going to lead to trouble.

Ugh. This seems like a prime example of when a trope turns into a soapbox. I'd say keep it as In-Universe only and disallow "general" stereotypes. In other words, rewrite it to only include work examples. There are certainly enough wicks to build an example list.

edited 28th Oct '11 12:22:10 PM by Fighteer

I agree with Fighteer. This one needs to be in-work only

Support.

Wow, this is really bad. Support.

edited 30th Oct '11 1:04:48 AM by kyfhv

Is anyone still doing anything with this?

I think TV Tropes would be much better off without real-life sections at all, There Is No Such Thing As Notability simply doesn't allow for an objective and respectful treatment of the topics touched upon on these pages. Tropers can satisfy their natter needs easily enough with fiction.

For what it's worth, I vote we make at least this and the other Acceptable Targets pages in-universe only.

edited 24th Jan '12 1:18:50 PM by Hasfet

Yup. When something gives us trouble, just remove it. God forbid we actually PUT EFFORT into improving something! Nope, the only solution is to Kill It with Fire.

That page makes me want to stab my own eyes out. In-universe would be a better idea.

I agree with what has been said so far.

Ugh. Yeah. Disgusting. Kill it.

(Or keep it in-universe.)

Seriously, British Columbia is an acceptable nationality target because a serial killer murdered a bunch of prostitutes? There are so many things wrong with that. And the page in general. Yes, something needs to be done.

Yeah. I do think that Real Life examples are good on most tropes, usually to tell where the trope originally came from or how Art Imitates Life, but clearly here it's just complaining about how nobody knows anything about where they live. I think it should just be specific examples, like Show X consistently portrays Country Y as being stupid. We already have the National Stereotypes page.

Right, I forgot about the National Stereotypes page. Why not kill this page and add in-universe examples to National Stereotypes so it has two folders: General and In-Universe? Or maybe keep this one but make it purely In-universe?

After getting rid of Troper Tales everything turned out for the better in my opinion so maybe articles that don't add anything to the "celebrating fiction" concept and just serve as flame-bait should go the same way. Also "acceptable targets" is so loaded it just invites people to get very emotional, just look at how much nicer National Stereotypes is because everybody is remind they are just that- stereotypes- by the very title.

I don't really think removing Troper Tales did anything OTHER than pissing off a whole bunch of people for a while. I know for a fact that I'm still bitter about it... But that's not why we're talking. We shouldn't just kill something because it gives us trouble or it's "flame bait". We seem to be in a rush to kill everything that gives us the SLIGHTEST bit of trouble. Yknow, instead of fixing it like we SHOULD be doing.

You are mistaken about "slightest bit of trouble", stuff gets cleaned up all the time.

Something that is unwanted should be changed instead of dropped? There is more to why natter magnets are unwanted than that they're problematic. I thought taking a chainsaw to Troper Tales was a fine move. You can please some of the people all the time...

edited 25th Jan '12 7:57:46 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Fine, are you volunteering to do the clean-up four months from now, when the natter and insults are back? And the one four months after that? Or are you volunteering to curate the page from here on in? Because that's what it'll take to keep it sane even if we do a clean-up.

Fiction can be described in a definite way by the average Troper- that's how it is, you read a story and you know everything there is to know. To describe things like wars, political issues and real life people you need somebody willing and objective or a system of references and locks- otherwise you end up with a wall of text with another wall of text below it (and that's before the constant tide of edits and reverts.) We have neither references nor locks and objectivity pretty much can't work without them on the internet.

So the question is why have articles that are redundant (this one is pretty much a more charged version of National Stereotypes,) constantly need attention, tell you very little about fiction and most importantly- imply TV Tropes has a definitive opinion on real life issues, which is neither true nor will it ever be nor is it necessary. Why does TV Tropes need to be a forum (and these pages are more like forums than actual articles) or even encyclopedia on controversial issues? The spirit and design of the site simply do not support that. That kind of Messiah Creep just brings down the overall quality and amicability of the site. Is having the occasional Wikipedia link so much worse than amorphous walls of flame? I'm not saying to bring a sledgehammer to all real life content, just to be cautious in deciding what of it is necessary and what isn't- I think this page isn't in it's current form. As a list of in-universe references with an introduction that politely reminds everyone that stereotypes are not accurate but that it is also unreasonable to expect that some events wont fit them - sure.

edited 26th Jan '12 5:47:27 AM by Hasfet

I'm voting for killing this because it needlessly duplicates National Stereotypes, but in a way that is a lot more whiny.

Crowner here.

I added one option. Feel free to add other options.

edited 7th Feb '12 8:37:06 AM by Catbert

Crowner hooked.

Gonna say no to cutting because 330 inbounds are not worth losing.

True, this page seems redundant to National Stereotypes or Acceptable Targets. We may add an option about redirecting it.

edited 7th Feb '12 2:52:08 PM by SeptimusHeap

Calling crowner. Move the stereotypes and then cut the page.

These are pretty huge pages. I'm starting on merging the North American sections. Would someone like to take on other folders?