Germany and Switzerland to phase out Nuclear Power.

My previous posts in defense of IFR breeders. I leave it to the reader to decide. Back on topic, I'm curious if they can do energy storage to handle changes in weather and more importantly changes in climate. Just because they're going green doesn't mean everyone else is quickly enough, and it's gonna get hotter before it gets cooler.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

What's your response to the nuclear proliferation concern, again?

You can't even write racist abuse in excrement on somebody's car without the politically correct brigade jumping down your throat!

Actually, Uranium 238 is radioactive. It just can't sustain a chain reaction like U235 can.

edited 1st Jun '11 7:36:21 AM by storyyeller

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

There'll be LESS weapons if we start burning existing stockpiles for fuels.

Proliferation is a concern, I'll admit, but not moreso for breeders than for existing nuclear power as far as I can tell. A lot of proliferation/security concerns tie ultimately into problems of corruption, and making the nuclear industry honest is frankly a harder task than inventing fusion.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Well, I guess I won't bother posting any citations, if the argument is over politics and engineering, not physics, it's not worth doing, because it won't be resolved.

Pretty favorably, they're both ~80% efficient, CAES construction is ~$500/kWe versus hydro's ~$1000/kWe, and storage is $1-2/kWhe to hydro's $10-80/kWhe (6.7MB PDF). Efficiency should come up quite a bit once they integrate thermal storage so they don't have to waste energy heating it back up during decompression. As the PDF notes, suitable locations cover 80% of the continental USA (aside: It also notes combined wind/CAES construction at $1250/kw, in 2005.)

Aside from my disbelief at the idea of a lead acid battery blowing most or all of its charge in a matter of hours, I'm sure you know perfectly well that instantaneous storage and longer-term storage are different markets with different technical implementations. Fast high-efficiency systems (like ultracapacitors, nearly 100% efficient with huge wattage, but insanely expensive both in terms of throughput and storage volume) and slow moderate-efficiency systems (like fuel cells, which are already ~60% efficient round-trip (≥90% combined-cycle,) ~$3000/kWe (already well under $1k/kWe for automotive systems,) and almost nothing per kWhe since it can be compressed or liquefied in any suitable container just like other gasses) appeal to completely different applications.

Also, while I still insist batteries are not suitable for long-term grid storage, the very paragraph you pointed to describes lithium-ion as only slightly more expensive per watt, and the link directly above that paragraph notes that commercial NaS installations are already ~$400/kWe, ~$400/kWhe, and ~90% efficient.

Eric,

edited 1st Jun '11 11:50:20 AM by EricDVH