Race- Privilege, Relations, Racism, etc.

Can I make the token Cultural Appropriation is something I can't understand beyond using headresses as a costume is something bad, I mean, I remember a colombian kid whose canadian school denied his mariachi halloween costume. Which is utterly ridiculous. There are colombian mariachi.

Physical Stamina,

A lot of people get on the liberal side because they feel better when pitying others. I've been on the receiving end. It sucks. I honestly prefer the stereotypical conservative hostility. It's at least honest.

Of course, the best is non-hostile and pitiless.

So basically it's another case of people being more concerned with looking racist than actually being racist.

Cultural appropriation is most often said to be a power dynamic between the majority (whites/Europeans) taking parts of the culture of a minority (Native Americans) without bothering to understand or engage with that culture. Using more Asian-American stuff: I have nothing against Chinese-American cuisine. It's delicious and an emphatically different breed from Chinese-cuisine-from-China.

But then you get into the "elite cuisine" trend where suddenly, everyone LOOOOOOOOOOOVES Asian food because it's so exotic and flavorful and unique! But in the most hoity-toity five-star restaurants, that Asian cuisine is cooked by white chefs, for a white clientele, and tends to be 1) fused with the cuisine of an entirely different part of Asia, or 2) messed around and played with until it's barely recognizable. Plus it's described in really Purple Prose exoticism that probably wouldn't be used for, say, French or German cuisine.

Meanwhile, most Asian-Americans remember that those same white people used to make fun of us for the way our food tasted or smelled. And it wasn't just standard kids being mean, there's almost always a racial component to the mocking. "LOLOLOL, do all Asians eat dog meat?" "Ewwwwwww, Asian food smells weird!"

There's a quote going around that puts cultural appropriation nicely: "We like your stuff, but not you."

edited 3rd May '16 7:10:22 PM by Sharysa

I've heard of a nearly opposite phenomenon where cheap "asian" restaurants serve cheap food made by latin-americans with the franchise owned by a white guy.

Reminds me of something Anthony Bourdain said that went along similar lines.

Cultural appropriation is the basis for a lot of the world's civilizations, no?

Korea certainly has a ton of it, complete with heaps of "we like the stuff but not you."

Seems pretty unremarkable when other cultures do the same, from my pov.

edited 3rd May '16 8:15:36 PM by garridob

This is one of those areas where I just don't personally get how it works. How can you like a culture and not the people who are part of it. It's their history, their personality, interacting with them that makes the experiences richer and more fulfilling. I love learning about other cultures and other places and just how other people see the world. It's what gives meaning to the food and the art and all the wonderful things about living in a world that's more than just one note.

There's a difference between appropriation and appreciation/exchange. Where that line is drawn exactly is the subject of much debate. Though certain things are clearly on one side to most reasonable people, such as non-Jews not using yarmulkes as a fashion accessory, and that it's OK for white people to purchase and consume sushi, or like and ship black characters in a particular work (the last point being a surprising contentious Flame Bait within Star Wars fandom as of the new movie).

edited 3rd May '16 8:28:13 PM by AlleyOop

Outside of a major religious or cultural significance I think people using things from other cultures is generally ok provided they acknowledge where it's from.

It's mostly just a question of respect really.

An example I can think of is the fad for churros here in Korea. Lots of people live the thing while being scared of Latin America. Of course this is a generalization and not everyone agrees.

Basically, you end up with a dynamic like "we'll take the lovely desert breads but you can keep the narco wars and machismo. Oh, and please don't immigrate."

In the United States (and probably the UK), cultural appropriation is rooted in imperialism since whites are at the top of the racial hierarchy. They feel entitled to take things from other cultures just because they like it, they don't feel the need to participate or research in the culture besides "yay, shiny!", and they don't pay attention to the feelings of whoever's actually a member of said culture.

And then on the flipside of "cultural appreciation," there's fetishism/exoticism. Whenever people start going on and on about "Asian culture," I really can't help the inner snarking that "you guys only appreciate EAST Asian culture. You think West Asia is a bunch of Muslim terrorists, you barely recognize South and Southeast Asia aside from India and sometimes the Philippines, and I'm pretty sure y'all have no damn clue that Central and North Asia exist."

Is there a trope for Asia Is China or the like, where Asia automatically means (stereotypical) China?

edited 4th May '16 1:26:48 AM by hellomoto

You need to look into the story of chicken tikka masala and naga chillies.

Britain does a weird bouncy ball thing with what it "appropriates" by taking something, tweaking it, handing it back, getting that tweaked by others then broadcasting the amalgam... and, always has. See also Paisley: basically simplified Persian designs... now modified again and popular in Persian-influenced cultures and elsewhere.

Or, the story of majolica wear.

No, because "Asia" in Britain means "Indian Subcontient, Nepal and Tibet" unless otherwise specified.

edited 4th May '16 1:34:40 AM by Euodiachloris

Cultural appropriation seen more like a double standar where one part want thng of the other but they take it in a manner dont cause cognitive dissonace for them(or in short, where you have all the awsome stuff without dealing with them) sometimes is a bizarre situation where someone like the culture but not the people or worst when those people get tie to much to the culture, them you get things like Asian being good as kung fu masters, math and being pretty and not much else.

Then there's the fact that you can like some things people do but not all of it. I can like Japanese food and gadgets without agreeing with their gender roles or work ethic.

Mmmm, this sashimi tastes great! Did I tell you I love sashimi? Especially tuna... wait what? What does liking sashimi have anything to do with what I think about women

Maybe we're misrepresenting the problem, which is less simply enjoying another culture's food/clothes/etc and more fetishing said food/clothes/etc. While the line between "liking" and "fetishing" is sometimes blurry, the fact that I googled "japanese wo'en" (yes, I made a typo, Google knew what I meant anyway) resulted in nothing but dating advice◊ says something (note "are japanese women easy"). I googled "japanese mwn" and obtained similar results◊.

edited 4th May '16 7:50:19 AM by hellomoto

When I eat food, I care only about the food. I don't think at all about where it came from or who invented it. Does this mean I participate in cultural appropriation?

Technically, I think it does. If there is food I haven't tried yet, I am jealous. If I like it, I will try to reproduce it. (And probably fail.)

x6: There is the trope, Interchangeable Asian Cultures, which is basically the same.

The problem isn't eating food. It never has been. It has been the way you interact with it. If you don't do the things Sharysa mentioned, or variations of it, then you're probably fine. If you are still worried, then analyze your own behavior and come to your own conclusions.

Let me put it this way: let said your mother made cookies, and somone prove it, now start taking of being mystical,strange and so one to the point it creep you out, also this people wants your mother cookie but call her a whore because she is not one of them, they want what they like...not the people who give it

granted is not a perfect anology but, what is?

Might this now be called cultural appropriation, and was Japan experiencing the reverse during the Meiji era and after World War II?

edited 4th May '16 1:10:06 PM by Greenmantle

I am going to be honest, all this using Japan as an example is making me uncomfortable, I don't like it when others get offended for me and personal I think apropriation is bullshit and this is just how cultures evolve.

White people want things we do? Fine by me, we probably stole it from them or the Chinese in the first place.

As long as they were consuming actual Japanese commercial products, and not denying the influence of Japanese aesthetics on their own art, probably not. Some of their perceptions of Japan may still have been stereotypical and exoticized, but I would consider that something separate from appropriation specifically.

This however I fully agree with, and find it to be a MAJOR problem.