Atheist student harassed for asking school obey state laws.

When it comes to the whole law thing, the law is separation of church and state.

I agree with this. It makes sense. It's there for a reason, and I don't really wanna elaborate. If I have to I will, but this is definitely a law that has more pros than cons.

So, why shouldn't the enforcement of this law be approved of? No one got hurt (by the law, directly) and everyone was allowed to keep their own beliefs in tact. It was a public school, and that's state owned. Religion is not allowed in it. No exceptions.

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Now, say there was a law I felt was unjust. I would still obey it. It's not a smart idea to go against the law just to break it. I will speak out against it, support politicians who are against the law, and maybe even try and end it myself, if I were some sort of activist.

But until I do that, it's still a law, and I'm still going to follow it.

edited 21st May '11 4:23:45 PM by MrAHR

No one got hurt by it being there either. You're not about to tell me that kid much have been horribly scared or mentally scarred by a religion just being there. For the Christians, though, this is equivalent to stepping on their beliefs. It's all a matter of perspective though.

That being said, before I get started on it, do people think "schools should cover major religions in their curriculum" should be its own topic or will it fit in here?

You don't know that. And it doesn't matter. It's against the law, and with good reason.

Look how the student was treated for getting it removed. I highly doubt that it was as feel good as it superficially seems.

To be honest, the placing of religion in the school system the way they did is harmful. It basically turns Christianity (or any religion used) into something it shouldn't be. An omnipresent sort of influence thingy. No one should sit through christian prayer, anymore than they should sit through islamic prayer, jewish prayer, or a rant on how god doesn't exist in a school.

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And school curriculum does cover religion, the same way they cover political parties. That's different.

edited 21st May '11 4:29:11 PM by MrAHR

Asking someone simply to not preach about their religion when it isn't appropriate is in no way, shape, or form, stepping on anyone's beliefs. It's not going to kill anyone to have to talk about things other than religion once in a while.

edited 21st May '11 4:29:22 PM by Jeysie

One of the big problems is that it IS stamping on certain people's beliefs. Or at least to them it is.

And that's a big part of the problem. If that wasn't the case you wouldn't need the law, but because that IS the case you need the law.

The problem is either way someones beliefs get stamped on. The speech they gave anyways wasnt exactly anything except a big "fuck you" to atheists

Christians are not being "persecuted" just because their graduation prayer at a school function is considered to be illegal. They are not being forced to accept atheism or anything like that. They're just not allowed to put religion in a place that is NOT LEGALLY ALLOWED THERE. There's this thing called the separation of Church and State. Church needs to stay out of State the same way State stays out of Church.

The real thin-skinned people are the Christians who think that they have the right to put religion in a government institution, and then start BAAAAAAAAA Wing about it when a lone dissenter tells them they can't do that.

I don't think any prayer to be said at a graduation would fall under the heading of 'preaching'. I expect it would be something like "God, please let these young people go on and have good lives and be good people". Not much that's preachy in there, unless they went on to detail that to be good people they have to go to church every Sunday and all the rest.

Here's the video for all who's interested. Basically went along the lines of "Please allow these young people to be successful in life and such".

edited 21st May '11 11:20:47 PM by Usht

...that's it? I wasn't expecting much more, but eh...sometimes I actually want to see something so amazingly extreme it makes everyone go "WTF" at once.

Man...my religion's general well wishings like that would have no mention of gods and could probably scrap by without much fuss. I feel left out and like Buddhism is liked too much...

Thank you for linking that, I believe the lady in the video(at the beginning) said it best.

So, um, question for all of the people against the Church on this matter, is the prayer merely being there a fuck you? Cause you'd be hard pressed to say that it was meant to be directly insulting (especially since they literally state that you only have to partake if you are Christian).

Well, if you believe that God Is Evil (which is what a lot of religious people seem to think about atheists) maybe you wouldn't want to draw his attention to you

edited 21st May '11 11:34:44 PM by nnokwoodeye

Also it's really fucking weird living in California and never really running into any religious people who think that people of other faiths or atheists are evil...Fuck man. You should all just move here.

They were having a moment of silence, isn't that enough time for prayer?

No, that's just what you call normal. Most people aren't dicks and as you'll notice in the video there are no deliberate attempt to make a Take That! at the student in question. Again, what I don't doubt is that there are at least a few people in every community who do fall under the definition of being a dick and so undermine the messages of that community (which in most places is simply civility and in this particular religious community, loving thy enemy and thy neighbor).

Notice the... twenty second long prayer followed by some silence. Traumatizing, I dare say!

edited 21st May '11 11:43:35 PM by Usht

Well, they might have made it more "politically correct" because of what the guy said.

Oh so that's normal where you are too, Usht?

What's wrong with just a moment of silence then? why would you need more? a moment of silence is pretty damn respectful to all religions and anyone who has a problem with it is just insane.

Silent Colossus, have you ever been to a church? Masses usually involving prayer for all groups in need regardless of affiliation. Believe it or not, the various Churches out there aren't out to eradicate all non-believers.

And Aon, I'm in red neck Christian country, people here are not dicks.

edited 21st May '11 11:46:03 PM by Usht

Actually this gives me an idea. If I ever become a teacher or some fancy school official I am going to say a Buddhist prayer and ask people to join in if they want. Just to see what the reaction to it is.

^Holy shit...You live in the land where these raging asshat Christians are supposed to all congregate in huge numbers too? ?!?!?

edited 21st May '11 11:46:45 PM by Aondeug

... I never said that they do. I was just saying they may have toned it down a bit because of what was said.

edited 21st May '11 11:54:16 PM by SilentColossus

I think you'd be fired.

I was talking more about how the internet would react. I am sure I'd get fired.

Yeap, Aon, smack bam in the midwest. The worst I've seen is a Baptist Church that said that the recession is the result of people not believing in God and even then I've been to other Baptist Churches that are busying trying not be associated with that particular one in any way. Beyond that, name the particular branch, they're all rather hospitable and perfectly okay with you admitting that you're agnostic and merely here to look onwards. The world runs on "Don't be a dick and people won't be dicks back".

Anyway, Counterclock, a moment of silence is good and all but it usually lacks the emotional impact of things said aloud. Plus, you could string along, erm, ten different religions and get it all done in ten minutes too apparently seeing as that stuff didn't take long at all, so I'm not seeing the problem here.

And, uh, Colossus, sorry about that, I took your post to be a bit more aggressive than it actually was.