God Emperor of Dune vs. God Emperor of Mankind (Dune vs. WH40K)

Let's the dispense with the justification and get down to the down and dirty.

How would the various armies we see in Dune: the shielded standard Saradukar, Atredies, Harkonnen forces and their ilk; the sheildless Fremen, deceptive Tleilaxu facedancer forces; and the unsheilded, lasgun heavy Fishspeakers and the armies to spring up after the reign of Leto II...

...compare against the forces of the Imperium of Man, as well as their many xenological antagonists?

Longest sentence ever.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.

What's this about shields?

Problem is, the Padishah Emperor can get killed by his own Houses.

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

One of the main technological developments in Dune are shields that work on the ill-explained Holtzmann principle. It's the same stuff that gives them anti-grav.

It causes anything moving above a certain speed to come to an abrupt halt, rendering projectile weapons almost useless (spring loaded pistols launching poisioned darts see some use).

Laser weapons are the prefered ranged system, but they see very limited use except between vehicles, since if they come in contact with a sheild (which is hard to extend over large distances) they cause an explosion on par with a nuclear weapon.

On Arrakis (Dune), however, they're much less useful. Out in the desert, they attract Sandworms, and on bedrock they can be shorted out by a dust storm.

Under Leto II they were banned, and lasguns became the most common weapons again, and were standard equipment after the treaties that banned nuclear weapons were extended to include laser-shield feedback loops.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.

So they run around with knives?

Various sorts of bladed weapons, yes.

Many add poision to the blades, since killing strikes are difficult, since shields can stop a blow that moves too fast.

A shielded swordsman must be "lightning quick on defense, and methodical on offense."

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.

What about gas?

^Ordos Deviator Gas. Turns anyone hit by it to be under the control of the Ordos temporarily.

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

It works, but not quite so well. Shields slow down air-exchange, but it would at most buy a second's worth of notice.

I'm guessing the reason they don't use it is because of a chivalric code, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't work. Likewise, napalm and the like would be slowed, but not stopped.

Although Harkonnen troops are often depicted as wearing gas-masks, it's not mentioned in the books.

The Fremen, on the other hand, are almost always in suits designed to prevent the escape of water vapor. Nerve gas would work, but they would probably be able to pull on protective gear for anything short of Sarin.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.

Continuing our earlier discussion from this thread, once Space Marines are in the fray nothing in the Dune universe could stop them barring sandworms. As good as the Fremen and Sardaukar are, they are merely men with swords. At close quarters the Marines will easily butcher them as they're a) superhuman and b) clad in power armour.

I haven't read anything beyond the first book, mind.

edited 15th May '11 3:42:02 PM by pagad

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.

From what I've seen, the Freman are closer to Jedi than Space Marines.

Grey Knights > Fremen

Yeah, I could see a Fremen dodging a power fist, leaping up on a Marine's back, and finding anything even the least bit vulnerable with his crysknife.

Although the Fremen have rockets, so before the Marines are in range they can at least take a few down.

In close quarters though, it'll be very much decided in favor of the Marines. Gureilla tactics might help a bit.

And anybody not wearing a helmet, they'd be dead.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.

A Space Marine not wearing his helmet is an idiot who deserves to die anyway.

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.

Welp, there go most of the vets.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.

Put him up against a sergeant then.

Do you know what would be interesting? Fremen vs Tallarn Desert Raiders.

edited 15th May '11 9:51:52 PM by SantosLHalper

The Fremen are essentially Space Mujahadeen.

Although nobody can touch them on Dune, the desert makes invading Russia look smart.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.

Yeah, guess what the Imperial Guard will do once they learn this. They have laser guns already, and their policy with respect to collateral damage seems to be "yes please"

edited 15th May '11 10:36:40 PM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

I imagine the Imperium of man knowing this and still sending massive regiments to attack and get wiped out where one soldier with a lasgun would do.

edited 16th May '11 12:15:20 AM by mailedbypostman

Of course, lasguns plus shields equals boom

"I can't imagine what Hell will have in store, but I know when I'm there, I won't wander anymore."

Eh, the Imperium is ruthless and dogmatic and inefficient and xenophobic, but it is not stupid. They would probably just lobotomise and brainwash a bunch of political and religious prisoners (no shortage of them in the Imperium, after all...), arm them with automatically firing lasguns and point them in the general direction of the enemy.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Haha, sometimes with the Imperium it depends on how somebody at the top feels that day.

I also foresee Commissar Cain getting involved somehow.

edited 16th May '11 1:30:28 AM by mailedbypostman

Certainly by accident and very reluctantly.

"I can't imagine what Hell will have in store, but I know when I'm there, I won't wander anymore."

The Guard would also do well against the Fishspeakers and post Golden Path armies, they use highly effective lasguns, but the art of mechanized warfare, and more importantly, artillery, has been mostly lost to them.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.