stalking

What makes being stalked upsetting? Why is it that shows like Twilight romanticize it? Is it possible for someone to be stalked and not mind it?

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.

For me, it is upsetting because I don't feel safe, as if i'm going to be mugged or something by the person following me. Stalking, in a sense, displays devotion. As far as I know, only if they don't even know it is happening.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.

Positive characterizations/interpretations of stalking:

1) Deep, unrequited love from a shy yet eager suitor

2) Somebody taking an interest in your uninteresting life

3) a Guardian Angel protecting you from truly evil forces

These make for excellent romantic fodder.

Negative characterizations/interpretations of stalking:

1) Someone that does not value your right to privacy

2) Worse, a possessive person that sees you as his/hers.

3) Even worse, someone that would rather see you destroyed than "belonging" to somebody else.

These mesh most closely with reality, I find. Many times the stalker isn't actually that interested in the person being stalked, but rather a selfish archetype of what that person SHOULD represent.

edited 8th May '11 8:04:01 AM by ForlornDreamer

They are generally doing it without your knowledge.

Meaning they probably have a reasonfor not wanting you to know.

Even if that reason is fairly well intentioned, it's very very creepy when you don't know what it is.

One of my few regrets about being born female is the inability to grow a handlebar mustache. -Landstander

Stalking is a term commonly used to refer to unwanted, obsessive attention by individuals (and sometimes groups of people) to others.

First description I got from looking it up.

I really have nothing to add to it.

For the positive interpretations of romantic stalking, also consider the idea behind the related Dogged Nice Guy trope, that insistinng on "getting the girl" means a kind of virtus, a manly determination, and shows more pure and serious intentions, than just randomly starting to flirt with women, and give it up at the first sign of resistance.

Though usually the result of this behavior is more "mildly annoying" than "obsessive", but for more sensitive sensibilities, even that can appear as borderline stalking.

edited 8th May '11 8:22:26 AM by EternalSeptember

Stalking is not respecting personal boundaries, usually fueled by underconfidence in the stalker. If you can't approach someone in the open, make it so you can.

I know what you said, sugar, but 'platonic' still entails a world of ideas.

A lot of things make stalking upsetting, but one of the most destructive aspects is the lack of respect for privacy, and the sense of security that it robs the victim of. It makes you cautious, and very fearful. In addition, the information being gathered - more specifically, the wondering, "Is he/she watching me now? Am I being recorded or taped?" and countless other questions - is upsetting, or can be.

I think that it is romanticized because those doing the romanticizing don't realize just how devastating and sanity-straining it is - if they realized that the stalking victim can often live in fear (as I did, being a victim of very persistant, pervasive stalking for years - that's still continuing, or so we fear), they'd see that it's not actually romantic. And just how horrible it is. It gave this troper PTSD and hypervigilance that affect her every single day, with many, many triggers... Stalking is not something to treat lightly.

I don't think this is the case, unless one were to apply it to real life.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.

And it might not be - but it seems (to me, anyway) that because it's not being applied to real life, some authors appear to think they can just completely disregard its implications entirely, which leads to some Unfortunate Implications all its own.

I don't see a reason for them to care if it isn't being applied to real life, mainly because of just how widespread rape has become as something to poke fun at and not take seriously. It just doesn't seem like something you should expect them to treat with caution.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.

People tend to be oblivious to the reality of things very easily. Stalking, fighting, disease, fishing, traveling, I could go on, but it all gets romanticized.

Stalking is easy to romanticize because the line between stalking and 'devotion' is very subjective line. Lots of times, the stalker is unconscious of the fact that they've crossed it for the stalkee.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

I wouldn't say that most people are completely oblivious to the reality of these things.

For example, historical warfare is often romanticized in media, and some nerds probaby even daydream about how awesome it would be to live in the middle age, and be a badass warrior, but in the end, you don't see people solving their misunderstandings in life-to-death duels with battle-axes, or living in the wilderness, because they know that real life doesn't, and shouldn't work that way, but if it could, that would be... SO EPIC!!!

In the same way, they know that Real Life relationships can't be based on pure devotion, and sometimes you simply can't "win" someone's hearth with it, and have a healthy relationship after that, but if you could, that would be... SO ROMANTIC!!!

It's not that everyone who, for example, sympathizes with the lyrics of the above song is a stalker waiting to happen, but they think that it would be good if emotions could be that pure and simple.

edited 8th May '11 10:43:45 AM by EternalSeptember

Why are people afraid of stalking? Partly, loss of control of your own life. Someone's shown interest in you, you've made it clear you're not interested, they won't take no for an answer and suddenly they're dictating the terms of your life. Also, stalking/obsessive behaviour has been the prelude to some infamous murders/attempted murders, like John Hinckley's assassination attempt on Reagan. There's every reason to be concerned.

Some people might respond positively to persistent romantic attention, but if they do then almost by definition it ceases to be stalking because it's not unwanted. No-one wants the kind of harassment that usually consitutes stalking, and your average stalker isn't a handsome sparkly vampire like in Twilight. Control-freak ex-boyfriends or violent ex-husbands, more likely.

"Well, it's a lifestyle"

There's a lot of speculation as to the reasons why people don't go out and do the things they dream about, some of it is prudence about the subject, other times it is because they don't expect other people to go along. Some of it is just fear that's an obstacle even to things they could easily do.

Or perhaps because they realize there's bad consequences for it. Stalking, for example, can get you a hefty fine, jail time, and a piece paper that says you must stay X distance away from person Y at all times.

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.

@ Edmania: I'm not trying to say that I expect them to apply it to real life - in fact, I don't. I expect it to be written in such a way that the reality is either handwaved or romanticized. Any stalking (or rape, or [insert thing here]) treated to the contrary is always a surprise. Honestly, I really don't expect them to care - but that doesn't mean I can't care after reading or watching something like it one too many times, does it? And, yes, I do put whatever the thing is away when I see that happening, because I always get the urge to write an angry letter. Actually, I get the feeling that most of those people haven't met a stalking victim - I could very well be wrong, and I'm aware of the generalization.

It (the ongoing experience) has come in handy with writing a character trapped in her own home, at least. It's just one of my Berserk Buttons I guess, to see a serious subject (one that I lived through - happens with domestic violence scenes, too) treated without any kind of resepect. If it's clearly meant as comedic, then I'm fine with it, and I can laugh along. But when it was meant to be taken "seriously" or was alluded to and then just dropped thanks to the Power of Love (looking at you, Twilight), then it pushes that button. It's probably because it's still raw for me that I'm bothered by things like that.

But, honestly, it would be really stupid of me to expect people to care. But it still touches that nerve anyway.

Most people haven't been stalked. They have no idea how frightening it is. And it can sound kind of silly to someone who hasn't experienced it — 'wait, you're scared because someone is paying attention to you?'

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

I think you've nailed it. If you could remove all the negative, creepy, awkward, and flat out scary aspects of being stalked, it would be a major ego boost.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

People generally dislike being watched.

Also, stalkers are generally crazy, and they're perfectly capable of harassing, assaulting, raping or murdering the stalkee, so it's frightening.

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.

This whole concept of "stalking" and societal perceptions thereof can for me be a somewhat frustrating deal. I have an almost compulsive desire to observe people and things for the purpose of gathering information on them, whether or not it's a romantic attachment or whatever. I just feel like I "know" someone better if I dig up all the basics on their life that might not have otherwise come up in conversation if I don't actually know them that well. It just doesn't feel right when I'm friends with a person and I don't know what there house looks like, what cars their family has, where they went to school (possibly because I went to a somewhat atypical high school myself), what kind of media they like, etc.

I notice things most people don't. I extrapolate from limited information. I follow online trails of information and dig up blogs or Deviantart accounts or other stuff that people don't advertise that openly. I feel like it's a genuinely useful talent if it could apply it in a useful direction, but I don't know what that would be. But I can never really talk about it with anyone.

If I do, I get called a stalker either jokingly or in a somewhat genuinely taken aback manner. So I mostly don't, even though it sort of is a big part of who I am. My friendship with Frances *

has been interesting because she finds my abilities in this regard to be incredibly impressive and has no issue with the fact that she was like the biggest target of them for the past almost two years before we became proper friends. So I can vent to her about such issues.

An important bottom line: I am ultimately harmless. This is somewhat a response to the above post, but it's true: I may stalk a lot, but I'm not crazy, and I'm certainly not dangerous. And contrary to what women might default to assume about some "creepy stalker guy", I am essentially a non-sexual person, my crushes are always more romantic than sexual. I'm not saying that justifies anything, but lets be blunt here, it's not like I'm masturbating to anybody, or planning to assault them, or whatever. You can observe and track a person without wanting to do anything to them at all.

This was kind of a semi-Thread Hop. I think I didn't really answer the question and made myself look horrible at the same time.

edited 8th May '11 12:38:51 PM by frog753

Flora Segunda | World Made By Hand | Monster Blood Tattoo ^You should read these series.

Nope. Creeping people out is a type of harm.

But how are your stalkees supposed to know that?

edited 8th May '11 12:45:37 PM by Penguin4Senate

Well that's the problem. My first answer would be that society and socialization should work differently such that I could say to someone "I happen to know this, this, and this about you, nothing harmful is going to come of this." and not have it be horribly awkward. But that's never going to happen, obviously. So I don't know. It's a flaw. If I devoted myself to studying a language and got over my worries about international travel and followed the right graduate school path, I could become a CIA analyst or similar and turn this flaw into a career. But if not, it's still I guess a problem I have. Frances admiring it, comparing my observational abilities to Sherlock Holmes, etc...is probably not actually very good for me, because it gives me that wrong idea about things.

I think what several people said earlier in the thread is absolutely right: Whether or not you've been stalked before changes your outlook on everything. And I never have been. And despite often trying to insist that I'm a nice person, I often seem to fail utterly on the Golden Rule side of things. I don't know how much I'd be disturbed by someone stalking me. It would depend on their gender, sexuality, how intensely they were doing it, how much they were finding out, etc. I might be impressed, for all I know. But it's never happened. I'm mostly forgotten and ignored instead. Which inevitably makes me really good at stalking. >_<

I don't want to scare or offend anyone. I'm not stalking any tropers. Really, I'm not. In fact, I'm not really stalking anyone anymore. Frances has become an attention sink of sorts, and I no longer rely on using real people as a basis for fictional characters as I've got much better at actually inventing original ones.

Flora Segunda | World Made By Hand | Monster Blood Tattoo ^You should read these series.