This thread exists to discuss British politics.
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Recent political stuff:
- The vote to see if Britain should adopt Alternative Voting has failed.
- Lib Dems lose lots of councils and councillors, whilst Labour make the majority of the gains in England.
- The Scottish National Party do really well in the elections.
A link to the BBC politics page containing relevant information.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 3rd 2023 at 11:15:30 AM
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@ The working class: Funnily enough, Danny was using the same arguments as a lot of the working class — if they're called xenophobic, bigoted, racist and closed-minded, well I'm sure they won't care at all. After all, to them Politicians are just corrupt ****** from London and should be all shot, right? They have other things to worry about. On immigration, I don't think economic arguments would make any difference, since the working class simply don't care about, nor understand them. It's the social impact on themselves that they see with their own eyes and silently despise; new shops, new languages and people they don't understand, the constant intrusion from saying what they think by people they see as busybodiesnote .
However, what that means for British Democracy is another point; should a fairly large group be effectively disenfranchised from Politics? Might that let others with more extreme views than UKIP in? I'm quite sure in some places that Labour's 1984 Manifesto would still win votes, because that's how long they've been disenfranchised. In fact, I'm sure if you used the same arguments as used here in a Working Mens' Club or Pub, you'd be at least told you're as out of touch as the politicians arenote .
In addition, the feelings of another part of the population might be inferred from this years' Classic FM Hall of Fame Number One, The Lark Ascending by Ralph Vaughan Williamsnote .
edited 21st Apr '14 2:45:24 PM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
Racists never think they're racist.
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
As vital as keeping tradition alive is, there are some traditions that just need to be left by the roadside.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
A procrastination in of itself
My problem with the anti-EU arguments is the assumption that a job is mine based on where I was born rather than if I'm hired for it. Nobody has ever been able to satisfactory explain to me why I automatically deserve a job I apply for more than the polish guy applying for it does.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Because people can't get the idea that "White makes right" out of their heads.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
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![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Aren't Poles white? No, it's more like a dislike of "the outsider", something which is common to all societies and all times.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
You'd be surprised how much racism there's been against people most of us would consider 'white'. Anti-Semitism is the most famous example, but Hitler had the Slavs on his hit list after the Jews, and anti-Irish sentiment in the nineteenth century basically painted them as 'white negroes'.
Also, I was thinking back to the UKIP scare about "75% OF OUR LAWS OUR MADE IN BRUSSELS!".
While that may be true, exactly what proportion of that 75% actually affects us in our daily lives?
"Yup. That tasted purple."
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
edited 22nd Apr '14 5:24:54 AM by Iaculus
What's precedent ever done for us?
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So, has anyone got anything to say about my views in post #13127?
The Winner Takes it all...or not:
- High breakfast TV salaries 'alienate' viewers, says Nick Owen
- Outlaw buying sex, says former Tory minister Caroline Spelman
- Caerphilly Council bosses in pay probe appear in court: Accused of misconduct in public office, for pay rises given to senior staff.
- Children 'no longer care' about winning or losing in sport
Oh, whoo: Torygraph gets all bent out of shape because kids just want fun. Normal service. <_<
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Fantastic new Twitter hashtag.
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That story was on The BBC's Breakfast News this morning!
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Tap, Tap, Tap...
- UKIP's Nigel Farage promises political 'earthquake'
- Vince Cable tells top UK firms: crack down on bonuses or face new laws
- Politicians, pulpits and God
- Rent 'unaffordable' for low-income families in third of UK
- Erasmus Darwin: The Leonardo da Vinci of the Midlands
- Bust-up between police reviewers goes public
In the blue corner, Tom Winsor, now HM chief inspector of constabulary, who was asked to review police pay and conditions in England and Wales by the Home Office in 2010.
In the red corner - Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington, a former Metropolitan Police commissioner and crossbench peer, who was asked to head an independent commission on policing by the Labour party last year.
In a letter to Lord Stevens obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, Mr Winsor records his dismay at parts of the peer's report, which he describes as "beyond rational comprehension" and "plainly unsustainable". The reply from Lord Stevens quotes a series of often personal criticisms of Mr Winsor from police officers. One claims "Winsor was not independent" and that his review was "politically driven".
The personal feud reflects a deeper clash between police officers who resent a civilian having such a central role in their future, and Conservative politicians who think it is best for an outsider to push through necessary reform and scrutiny.
Two men, aged 32 and 34, both from Salisbury, were arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to steal fuel on Sunday and released on bail. The tapping device was discovered a few hundred metres from where the fuel had been found.
A statement from Hampshire Police said: "The exact quantity and circumstances surrounding the accumulation of fuel are central to the investigation, and detectives are focussing on identifying those responsible. The fuel is stored safely and securely and is being retrieved by engineers from the nearby Esso refinery. The investigation [is] still in its early stages."
The Midline pipeline was built in the 1980s and runs underground, carrying fuel through Wiltshire to the Midlands, including Birmingham International Airport. Officials from the Environment Agency and health and safety experts have attended the scene to ensure the safety of the area.
edited 22nd Apr '14 2:45:46 PM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
RE: 13127
This is more an argument against the establishment rather than an anti EU / Immigration argument. Which is a serious problem within UK politics. Labour have been cut off from the working class by the death of the Unions. Traditional culture centred around the Church has cut off the Conservatives from their working class base. The symptoms are there for all to see in the form of declining membership to both major parties, and the issue is exacerbated by "professional" politicians and parachuted candidates into safe seats. It is no longer possible to see a path from being a community leader either at church or as your Union rep in the factory to the Houses of Parliament. To become a politician now requires a PPE from Oxford, family connections and wealth.
I disagree on the first point. It is possible to change the narrative on immigration. Classically, one can blame immigration for stealing British jobs.
Q: How are Immigrants stealing British jobs?
A: By accepting the same job for lower pay.
Q: Who benefits when the job is carried out for lower pay?
A: Employers.
Q: Therefore, where should your anger be directed?
A: At the employers.
Thus, a justifiable anger at immigration for stealing jobs can be turned to a classic proletariat versus bourgeoisie battle, to try and redistribute profit away from shareholder dividends / executive pay to all workers. And the best thing about this is that it only works if immigrants are included in the action, which will inevitably raise all wages, immigrant and native alike.
This approach has been battle tested: Socialist groups working in areas that have been impacted by immigration have managed to nullify the anti-immigration rhetoric and redirect that anger into a more productive battle. It must be noted however that only socialist organisations are willing to take these steps. No one from the mainstream dare engage in this sort of activity for fear of being seen as anti business.
With regards to the social impact of immigration, that is a tougher point to refute without personal knowledge of specific situations and actions to address them. However, I firmly believe that we have to trust that our political structures can accommodate these strains, and if they cannot they we have to change them. Our institutions (Principally thanks to FPTP) have always thrown up cases where those supported by a minority have to represent regions where the majority did not vote for them. Provided that politicians, especially at the local level, continue to act as representatives for all once elected then we should be able to steer through any issues. For me, the acid test comes when immigrant populations grow large enough to potentially influence representation at a local level and possibly beyond, we see politicians court theses votes just like any other segment of the population and not stir up resentment for the sake of political gain.
This is a continuation from the above point, and we do need to address this problem in our politics. My belief is that the parties need to rebuild their connections to local groups that may share their ideals. For example, I would like to see Unions expand back into the social sphere with working clubs and mutuals.
Maybe? That would be a lovely example of ballot stuffing if it turned out that the left wing decided to show its anger by placing The Lark Ascending atop Classic FM's Hall of Fame. Will the subversive efforts of the left wing know no bounds? One would expect that the other Classical Radio channel, BBC's Radio 3, was already a lost cause to left wing infiltration, but for the commercial equivalent to also be at risk.
On a personal note, I suppose I would like to reveal a small sliver of personal information that you might find interesting Greenmantle. My MP is the Right Honerable James Arbuthnot.
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On a personal note, I suppose I would like to reveal a small sliver of personal information that you might find interesting Greenmantle. My MP is the Right Honerable James Arbuthnot.
The point I was making is that similar to the rise of UKIP, people seem to want a very "English", pastoral form of music in these turbulent times. RVW wrote quite a large amount of that sort of musicnote In terms of local MPs, mine is Maria Miller.
BBC: Tony Blair: 'West should focus on radical Islam'
In a speech the former UK prime minister - now a Middle East envoy - said powerful nations must "take sides" and back "open-minded" groups.
In short: "WHY AREN'T YOU PAYING ATTENTION TO THE PROBLEMS I CREATED?!"
"Yup. That tasted purple."
Blair considers Russia's government "open-minded"? Is Russia's image being rehabilitated or something?
No, Tony's just an idiot who hasn't quite grasped that the spike in Islamic Extremism is partly his fault for running round the Middle East with his head up Dubya's arse.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
HGW XX/7
For a cool couple of million, TB will let anyone stick their hand up his arse and use him as a puppet. He's probably being paid.
Schild und Schwert der Partei
,
Oh okay. That's kind of depressing. I don't know much about Blair, I didn't realise that's what he was like.
edited 23rd Apr '14 2:48:20 AM by editerguy
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A few would probably like the reverse. No Accounting for Taste!
St. George, Scotland & UKIP:
- Lord Dannatt attacks Nigel Farage over burning flag poster ...comments are interesting, and not complementary.
- UKIP immigration policy - the wife test: A reminder — Nigel Farage's wife, Kirsten, is German.
- UKIP immigration policy - the wife test
- Scottish independence: Cameron and Salmond make appeals on St George's Day
- Happy St George's Day – from Alex Salmond: SNP leader promises an independent Scotland will help north of England fight the power of London — Does Salmond want the North of England to join Scotland?
- Happy St George's Day – from Alex Salmond: SNP leader promises an independent Scotland will help north of England fight the power of London
- West Midlands is most patriotic region in England, says St George's Day survey
- Shakespeare's England: Where do you find it today?
- Are late night brawls a thing of the past?
HGW XX/7
I suspect quite a chunk of the North of England would like that.
Schild und Schwert der Partei
Ha! Not if the likes of Ian Paisley and his rotten lot have anything to say about it.
Would that we could get shot of Northern Ireland instead of Scotland...
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.