This thread exists to discuss British politics.
Political issues related to Northern Ireland and the Crown Dependencies (the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man) are also considered on-topic here if there's no more appropriate OTC thread for them.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.
As with other OTC threads, off-topic posts may be thumped or edited by the moderators.
- There is a dedicated thread to discuss LGBTQ+ rights in the United Kingdom. That doesn't mean it's always off-topic here, but unless something's directly linked to political events, that's probably a better thread for it.
- There's also a separate thread to talk about your favourite British Prime Ministers.
Recent political stuff:
- The vote to see if Britain should adopt Alternative Voting has failed.
- Lib Dems lose lots of councils and councillors, whilst Labour make the majority of the gains in England.
- The Scottish National Party do really well in the elections.
A link to the BBC politics page containing relevant information.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 3rd 2023 at 11:15:30 AM
Not "off limits", but if you use that as a source without backing it up with other sites, people won't take it seriously.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
If you want reliable news, yes. If you want something to point and laugh at, no. Mehdi Hasan gives a pretty nice summary:
This image
◊ is also instructive.
edited 23rd Mar '14 4:18:38 PM by Iaculus
What's precedent ever done for us?
HGW XX/7
By no means, but the trouble is, it has such a pattern of distortion and outright lying - especially where Muslims are concerned - that it is usually better to find another source that at least confirms what the Mail is saying. This is a useful approach to take with most tabloids; and I include lefty ones like the Mirror in that.
He's just cranky they didn't employ him. 
edited 23rd Mar '14 4:09:46 PM by Achaemenid
Schild und Schwert der Partei
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
On a related note, have some free Mail terribleness.
One person who did not have any need to get up to speed on the science is my colleague at UCL, Hiranya Peiris. As a UCL cosmologist and a leading member of the Planck team, whose data are being eagerly awaited to confirm or deny the BICEP 2 observations, she is ideally placed to comment. She did so, in these pages and on Newsnight, with Maggie Aderin-Pocock, the new presenter of The Sky at Night and an outstanding communicator of science.
It does not surprise me that a particular tabloid columnist didn’t see the wonder of the science. However, I must admit this diary item in the Daily Mail did surprise me when Hiranya showed it to me:
Newsnight’s Guardian-trained editor, Ian Katz, is keen on diversity.
So, two women were invited to comment on the report about (white, male) American scientists who’ve detected the origins of the universe – giggling Sky at Night presenter Maggie Aderin-Pocock and Sri Lanka-born astronomer Hiranya Peiris.
Again, not surprising that the Mail hates the BBC and the Guardian, but the sneering at the race and gender of the scientists is so blatant and ignorant, displaying such a poverty of spirit, that one can only pity the sad hack who put it together.
Though it is also acceptable to be very, very angry. Or “disappointed” as David Price, our vice-Provost for research, puts it in his open letter to the editor of the Mail, Paul Dacre.
It is worth noting that, as Hiranya herself says, the Mail
… has even erased the contributions of all of the non-white and non-male and non-American scientists involved in the discovery at the same time.
The physics community does have a somewhat unbalanced ethnic and gender mix, but the BICEP 2 team are more diverse than the Mail implies, nonetheless.
The lowlife who wrote this hides under the ridiculous nom de plume of “Ephraim Hardcastle”. It amuses me to think they were so pleased to have found another chance to attack their media rivals that they didn’t realise they were letting slip race and gender assumptions that would expose them quite so starkly as a relic of the 1930s.
Ah well, back to looking at the stars. Or the particles.
The open letter referred to is here.
Dear Mr Dacre,
I am writing to express my deep disappointment in the insinuation in your newspaper that Dr Hiranya Peiris was selected to discuss the ‘Big Bang’ breakthrough on Newsnight for anything other than her expertise.
In Ephraim Hardcastle’s column on 19th March, he asserts that Dr Peiris and Dr Maggie Aderin-Pocock were selected based on gender and birthplace because ‘Newsnight’s Guardian-trained editor, Ian Katz, is keen on diversity.’
The implication that anything outside of her academic record qualifies Dr Peiris to discuss the results of the BICEP 2 study is profoundly insulting. She is a world-leading expert on the study of the Cosmic Microwave Background, with degrees from Cambridge and Princeton, so is one of the best-placed people in the world to discuss the finding. Dr Aderin-Pocock is a highly-qualified scientist and engineer with an exceptional talent for communicating complex scientific concepts in an accessible way.
Mr Hardcastle also wrongly states that the discovery itself was made by ‘white, male American’ scientists, when in fact the study was conducted by a diverse group of researchers from around the world. For the record, I have added an attachment setting out the extensive academic credentials of Dr Peiris and Dr Aderin-Pocock.
It is deeply disappointing that you thought it acceptable to print an article drawing attention to the gender and race of scientific experts, suggesting that non-white, non-male scientists are somehow incapable of speaking on the basis of their qualifications and expertise.
I look forward to your reply and would ask that the Mail rectifies the insinuations made about Dr Peiris and Dr Aderin-Pocock at the earliest opportunity.
Yours sincerely,
David Price
Professor David Price, Vice-Provost for Research at UCL
Dr Hiranya Peiris, Reader in Astronomy at UCL, said:
“I deeply pity the sort of person who can watch a report about ground-breaking news on the origins of the universe and everything in it, and see only the gender and skin colour of the panellists. I am disturbed that he has even erased the contributions of all of the non-white and non-male and non-American scientists involved in the discovery at the same time.”
Dr Maggie Aderin-Pocock, Honorary Research Associate in the UCL Department of Physics and Astronomy, said:
“I find Ephraim Hardcastle’s idea very interesting, I now picture the Newsnight team flipping through their rolodex, saying ‘too white, too male… ah, 2 ethnic minority females, perfect!’. Monday was a very busy day for me, receiving 10 requests for news interviews, I was able to do Radio 4’s PM program, 5 Live, Channel 5 News and Newsnight. I believe that the requests were made for my ability to translate complex ideas into something accessible, rather than my gender or the colour of my skin.”
A procrastination in of itself
X5, What others have said, the Daily Mail (along with other tabloids) is so often just outright making stuff up that it's not a legitimate source for anything other than what the Daily Mail thinks is happening.
edited 24th Mar '14 12:41:19 AM by SilasW
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
V
Not that any of the British Newspapers (even the local ones) is entirely free of that, however.
Neil Kinnock's son Stephen selected to fight Aberavon seat
Aberavon MP Hywel Francis announced last November his intention to step down in 2015. Mr Kinnock was selected by a meeting of local members in Aberavon on Saturday.
edited 24th Mar '14 1:14:30 AM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
A procrastination in of itself
Very true, though the broadsheets tend to avoid inventing things and instead just misinterpret the real facts some times.
And Aberavon isn't much of a fight, the last time Labour won it with less than 50% of the vote was 1922 when they took it from the Liberals. Since then it's gone from 53% labour to 100% (un opposed Labour win in 1935), safe seat doesn't even begin to cover it.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
I'd say especially the local ones - they're smaller outfits, so they have less quality-control and less resources for proper journalism.
On a national level, though, the Mail tends to stand apart from its peers - it's not uncommon that a major paper will get things wrong, and sometimes they will outright lie, but that's the norm for the Mail. The fact that it tends to be far more open and extreme about its various bigotries doesn't help, either (see above articles).
What's precedent ever done for us?
V
Here's a thought — does the Mail say in public what their target market actually thinks, but can't say in public?note .
Keep Rolling On
Given what I've seen in the comments for Mail Online (while wearing a crash helmet and only touching my computer with a ten foot pole >.>) I'd say that's the case.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Though given how fond it is of actively distorting the facts, I think it's reasonable to accuse it of actively attempting to shape its readership's prejudices as well rather than being just a passive vessel.
What's precedent ever done for us?
True.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
Will Osborne's budget split the shadow cabinet?
I don't know, but I do enjoy watching labour wallow in their own mess.
V
I've done the survey: 100% Calm Persistence
I just did the test too. I'm 88% Calm Persistence.
HGW XX/7
Cosmopolitan critic.
Schild und Schwert der Partei
V
- Aborted babies incinerated to heat UK hospitals
- The BBC is a little more circumspect: Warning over burning aborted foetuses
- The BBC is a little more circumspect: Warning over burning aborted foetuses
What has the Mail to say about that?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
HGW XX/7
Well, it's apparently not a massively pressing concern, since the first item on their horribly-designed website is:
Other issues more important that fetus-power:
and
Their take is here: 'I was told my baby would be incinerated with the rest of the day's waste': Bereft mothers tell Amanda Holden how NHS terribly mishandled their miscarriages
Yep, Labour's leadership are hypocrites.
That article talks about political families very much, about privileged groups not so much. It would be nice if there was less fluff on the way to the actual point of the article.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
V
But Political Families are privileged, by nature of their position. It might not always be financial, but it definitely is in terms of networking and knowledge of how the system actually works.
edited 24th Mar '14 3:45:25 PM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
A procrastination in of itself
Political dynasties (while certainly a problem due to how they block out new ideas) are not the same thing as someone being incredibly privileged and out of touch with normal people, try again Mail.
Edit: sure they have networking advantages, but have a natural connections advantage with others in politics is not the same thing as having no experience of the life that normal people lead.
edited 24th Mar '14 3:51:26 PM by SilasW
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
So the daily mail is off limits then?