British Politics Thread

The Sun complaining about someone spreading libelous bullshit without taking into account all the facts? Oh the ironing.

Also, this:

edited 11th Nov '12 10:29:52 AM by TheBatPencil

And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)

Still amongst the best anti-war songs ever composed. Which is no surprise as the man, Eric Bogle, also wrote this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZqN1glz4JY

And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda.

I stood to attention in front of my telly set yesterday morning, for the two minutes silence, whilst watching the ceremony at the Cenotaph on the BBC.

Items from Today:

• Abu Qatada released from prison: Uhem, Yes.
• Royal Navy submariner admits Official Secrets Act breach: Not so Smug Now, You Bastard!.
• Flexible parental leave to give mothers 'real choice' over work-life balance

Keep Rolling On

Hopefully Qatada loses the next appeal. He is Jordan's problem, not ours. They should be the one dealing with him. And stopping them bringing the smug twat to their form of justice is counter productive. Especially when they may refuse to extradite criminals from Jordan to the UK.

On that submariner? Idiot. Wonder what agency the fool thought he was dealing with? Most likely either the GRU or the SVR/KGB/FSB whatever they are calling themselves this week, but I am not sure.

We should not extradite people to face unfair trials or inhumane punishments. These protections are especially important for people that we do not like. If Jordan decides not to extradite people to us, then that's their right as a sovereign nation.

In fact, the thought of using human beings as a currency is rather abhorrent. Fiat justitia ruat caelum.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

A better option, if Qatada ends up being a problem, is to nail him under our laws for something he does here. If he doesn't... well, if there isn't a problem, there isn't a problem. The Justice Department really dropped the ball on this one - if you're going to go after someone through legal means, you'd better hope the law allos for it.

edited 13th Nov '12 9:16:06 AM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?

Why bother with a trial you might lose, when you can harass a guy for a decade, perfectly legally?

It's ridiculous; this should have taken a year, tops, and ended with 'no, you can't extradite this guy to that shithole'.

On the other hand, the case has forced changes in the Jordanian constitution, and might bring about further changes, so it could end up being a net positive. Which doesn't make it right, or excuse multiple governments' outrageous actions, but at least it's something.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

Outrageous actions? Yeah, good way of describing what that person has done. From his page on the Other Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Qatada

"Activities, affiliations and influence

"According to the indictment of the Madrid al-Qaeda cell prepared by Spanish prosecutors, Abu Qatada was "considered the spiritual leader" of al-Qaeda in Europe and other groups including the Armed Islamic Group (GIA), the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC), and the Tunisian Combat Group.[27]

When questioned in the UK in February 2001, Abu Qatada was in possession of £170,000 cash & £805 in an envelope labelled "For the Mujahedin in Chechnya".[28]

Abu Qatada's name is included in the UN al-Qaeda sanction list pursuant to United Nations Security Council Resolution 1267.[2]"

And how can you flee from "religious persecution" when you are of exactly the same religious group as your alleged persecutors? As they were the grounds that he was able to con Britain into giving him asylum.

I see a lot of accusations, but no convictions. Innocent until proven guilty - and it has to be in a fair court. If the British government think that he's done something, they should try him in Britain.

Again, just because you don't like him, doesn't mean that his rights are unimportant - quite the opposite, really, since we're unlikely to persecute people we like.

Your quip about religious persecution is straight-up idiotic, as if Christians had never burned other Christians at the stake. There are plenty of types of Islam, which are often at odds with each other.

edited 13th Nov '12 12:07:52 PM by imadinosaur

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

You called Jordan a shit hole. /golf clap on that one. Well done. Have you ever been there? You have made your mind up on the case already and seem blind to the evidence presented. Evidence that was strong enough for the Law Lords to say that slamming his ass to Jordan was the right thing to do. It isn't that I don't like the guy, he may be a good husband and father and all that stuff, I just object to what he does outside of his family life and also his hiding behind a legal system that if he had his way would disappear and be replaced by sharia law and the hadith.

And the religious persecution aspect of the case was idiotic. As he was not only a Muslim but of the same sodding sect of Islam as that of the government who had already tried and convicted him in absentia. Don't presume to lecture me on how Christians of all sects deal with each other. Not big, not clever and I will object to it.

Yeah, if there is an issue with trying him in Jordon then why can't we try him here? Are his crimes not crimes under UK law? Can't Jordan’s government just sent us the evidence and let us put him on trial?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

Putting him on trial in this country would fall under the category of nice idea, but... His lawyer, Gareth Pierce (very good trial lawyer, got the Guildford Four released from prison after they had been locked up for something that they hadn't done) would be able to claim, with a reasonable chance of success, that Qatada would not get a fair trial due to just about every prospective juror already having made his or her mind up about him, after all the publicity that the man has received in the last decade or so.

Frankly, the British legal establishment and government wouldn't want the hassle of a court case that ran the risk of putting him in jail again. If they win, he is a poster boy for unfair trials and an unjustly imprisoned martyr, if they lose, he and his supporters get to make the establishment eat crow. That is why they want him on the next plane to Jordan.

^

...and if this carries on, the odds of it being resolved differently increase. I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't been looked into. While I remember, he is not popular where he lives either: they just want him out*

.

Unsurprisingly, David Cameron is 'Fed Up'. I don't blame him: they've tried everything and it hasn't worked.

edited 13th Nov '12 1:56:18 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On

Attractive or not... we're stuck with him. Why does part of me kind of hope some random nutter snipes at him from roof-top? <sighs> I don't advocate killing people as a general rule, but... it'd certainly make a lot of people's lives easier.

BBC Scotland is "a moribund institution, loaded with management dead wood and run not for the viewers and listeners, but for a small cabal of lifelong pension-hugging BBC bureaucrats."

And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)

Like the article says, isn't that the whole of the BBC, as well as ITV?

Keep Rolling On

The London-based equivalents of Reporting Scotland and Newsnight Scotland would never be allowed to get away with the kind of out-put they do up here. RS consists entirely of football, murder and fatal accident enquiries (tellingly, people often say that it comes on after the "proper" news) and Newsnight is now pretty much the Labour Party Podcast.

BBC Scotland's attitude and coverage has been getting increasingly parochial and irrelevant. In the run up to the most important political event Culloden, BBC Scotland is failing in its duty; you can't have a proper democratic approach to Scotland's future when its most significant broadcaster is too incompetent to cover it properly.

I'm half-expecting to see the news come on with Rab McGlinchy translating for the Neds.

And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)

^

Maybe it's due to the best*

moving to London, Salford or further afield, leaving the not-so-good stuck in Scotland? Or is Scotland getting too parochial for its own good, trying to become a Hidden Elf Village?

Keep Rolling On

It's probably a mix of factors. One of them being "try not to be as London as possible". Even if that means becoming a little... well... you know... <shrugs as she trails off>

Mainstream media in Scotland is largely co-opted by idiots and their pals. Competent and creative people just don't want to work under that. The state of sports journalism (which in Scotland consists of a bunch of Glasgow-based sycophants giving Rangers free PR) is a good example of the mind-numbing irrelevance that gets passed around as media these days.

Top management in Pacific Quay and other places like it just assume that we're all a bunch of complete idiots and that they don't have to put any effort in.

And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)

In other news... I ended up not voting today. I could, in all conciousness... vote only for one candidate (the Conservative: don't fully agree with his agenda, but at least he's had some experience in the force, and more in managerial roles outside it).... the others just weren't up to snuff (the Lib Dem lacked anything remotely like relevant managerial experience, although I liked his aims; the UKIP member had exp, all right... being kicked out of councils/ other boards right and left, so... pass; and the Indi gave me nothing to go on). So: spoiled ballot. Wooty.

I could have risked going for the Indi, but... I was too bleeding scared most people would do that for a second vote, and make the vague nebulousness happen.

edited 15th Nov '12 8:13:44 AM by Euodiachloris

For those of us interested in Parliamentary Affairs, the edifice of lies surrounding the late "lamented" Sir Cyril Smith is beginning to crash down, with allegations that he abused young boys and handed out "sexual" punishments at a boys home at which he taught now coming to light.

Good for Oliver Kamm in the Times and Private Eye, the only print outlets to cover the allegations in the wake of the man's death.

Schild und Schwert der Partei

I do rather like Private Eye's cover this issue - the headline "Newsnight names top paedo" and a picture of Pudsey the Bear. Someone off-picture is demanding Pudsey get away from the children and the bottom caption is "Apology to Pudsey inside".

Not as daring as the "Santa shredded by a windturbine" or "Wise man at the Nativity saying he thinks the newborn baby Jesus is David Blunkett's child" ones (both among the most complained about frontpages they've done) but brilliant nonetheless!

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

Their best frontpage is and remains the Diana issue, though the Catholic sex abuse one ("In the olden days boys wanted to enter the priesthood, rather than the other way round.") was a cracker.

Schild und Schwert der Partei

I heard an even better one when I were but a lad but it's a bit more risqué.

Just watched John Prescott's face after he lost the election for Police and Crime Commissioner in Humberside.

Hahahahahahahaha. Three to one on favourite and he still lost to a Tory in a "safe" Labour area.

edited 16th Nov '12 10:46:45 AM by TamH70