Babylon 5

I bloody love this show, but the Earth-Minbari War really is an enormous gripe of mine. Everyone is far too forgiving of the Minbari for attempting to kill literally every human in what would have been one of the worst genocides in fiction. That's up right there with Nazi Germany apologising and making peace with the Jews. That some Minbari have the audacity to retain grudges AFTER the war is beyond belief.

On the plus side, that would be a nice excuse to bring back Uncle Yossel.

I think some people are making the mistake of thinking that because something/someone/some race looks like an honorable moral center, that means that they really are the moral center. As an example, just because the Vorlons look like angels and have one character playing the cryptic wise mentor doesn't mean that they are what they look like, or act the part.

The Minbari are shown right from the first season to often be underhanded, morally flawed, and willing to manipulate their ironclad Honor Before Reason principles to their advantage. Remeber them sheltering Deathwalker, a space Nazi, and adapting weapons she created? Remember the attempts to restart a war so they could finish a genocide they started? Remember how Delenn has a conversation with Sheridan where she basically says that she reads human newspapers to find out information regarding the Minbari because her culture and government are a repressive, heavy handed, society that tightly control information? How about hints from late in the show that the Minbari ostracized and discriminated against impure Minbari of mixed race?

And it's not like it just comes from one caste either. In some late season episodes the religious caste engages in the exact same acts as the warrior caste, even while they're in the middle of looking down their noses at the warrior caste for committing those acts.

I could go into issues being raised about whether it's realistic for the Minbari to have a caste system and some of the less than perfect things about their society and such by pointing around to our world and drawing parallels, (i.e homo sapiens are believed to have had culture for 50,000 years and it hasn't stopped us from having caste systems, or kept women from being attacked, molested, or worse on the streets of cities that were once known as centers of enlightenment for great empire) or you could just not think about it too hard.

In the end, Minbari aren't good people or bad, they're just people, with everything that entails. Including good points and bad, and cultural weirdness. They have standout good members, and standout bad. Wise people and bloodthirsty bastards side by side. Just like us.

Or at least, that's my take on the matter.

Well said. I really need to rewatch it now.

I am re-watching the show, and I've come to a realization...

I dislike Franklin. Alot. Now, I'll admit this is completely my opinion. Partial, Biased, YMMV. Whenever there's some sort of moral issue, he has a tendance to come off as smug regarding his side. And his stim addiction plot, in the middle of season 3, knee deep in the shadow war, right as B5 is breaking off from the Earth Alliance, strikes me as one of the greatest example of Trapped by Mountain Lions. Why did anyone thought I'd give a flying crap about the doctor's dealing with his addiction, trying to "find himself" when the fate of the entire galaxy is in the balance. Part of the reason I find Walkabout to be a terrible episode who is only made worst by its placement in the series.

I'm making my way through the series; I'm near the end of the second season.

It's weird, at the beginning I thought G'Kar was a dick and Londo was likable, but now I feel so sorry for G'Kar and hate Londo.

I got my introduction to the show with the 5th season, and started watching it systematically at the 2nd season when I bought some of the DV Ds, so G'Kar was always my favourite character.

It's the point :-P

Londo slowly becomes more tragic that loathesome as the series progresses.

What's eerie is that Londo was irrelevant in the grand scheme. Like the Technomage said, Refa or some other pinhead would have filled his place. The Centauri were always going to march toward total disaster; Londo chose what he thought was the winning team, and lost everything.

Looking around I'm surprised the Mimbari occupy all the Our Elves Are Better tropes around. since the Vorlons do those kinds of things a lot more frequently.

Keep watching. Some of the reasons will be shown more as the series will go on, although some of it just about the sheer orders of magnitude: the difference between Minbari and Vorlons is a little bit like the difference between elves and demi-gods.

The gulf between Vorlons and most of the other races is so great, and the Vorlons so removed and inaccessible, that it just doesn't make sense to put them in that comparison. And again, as you get through the show, and especially as you get into later seasons, more will become apparent. Remember that G'kar's line from Season 1 about how no one is what they appear to be applies to everyone.

RIP Michael O'Hare

And for the non-video folks (bandwidth, subpar computer, whatever): http://www.examiner.com/article/babylon-5-s-michael-o-hare-passes-away

Strange how he just vanished. He wasn't really a TV actor at heart — but even so, in the online age it takes skill to keep off the grid like that.

Well damn. He was still a young man in this day and age. Sixty years of age is no age at all to die. RIP.