What's wrong with Scientology anyways? It's just another religion...

Enh, the only difference between a cult and a religion is time and numbers. Two thousand years ago Romans and Jews were saying as bad or worse about Christianity. Thirteen hundred or so years ago Christians were saying as bad or worse about Islam. Some still do and vice versa. [[strike Jim Jones]] Joseph Smith was shot for his beliefs and many people still consider LDS a cult.

Trump delenda est

Why is no one talking about the lawsuits and the fact they try to ruin lives of the people who leave or publicly speak out against them!?

They can believe whatever they want but THIS is the main problem!

Actually that's a very interesting thought. Have you explored memetics? If not, you definitely should.

Maybe it's up to the fact that Hubbard never thought about longevity. He just wanted to be rich quick. It didn't matter to him whether scientology would be around 100 years later.

Well the teachings in scientology are specifically designed to allow and even enforce the detrimental behaviour of their members, so while teachings, people and their actions are different things, they also have to be seen in their interactive glory. Spreading the teaching, luring new members in, is definitely part of the problem. The "fair game" policy, the "suppressive person declaration", and, above all, the idea that "making scientology work" is a goal in and of itself that has to be achieved at any and all cost - all of these are part of scientology's doctrine. So, no, the beliefs are not harmless (which may in fact contradict my earlier statement).

edited 30th Apr '11 10:52:08 AM by vijeno

Honestly, because I think it's already fairly obvious. That doesn't mean that everyone knows about it, but if you're fairly curious about Scientology, a basic internet search becomes a plot for a horror movie. The Wikipedia page for it is practically filled with all the lawsuits they've either tried or did pursue. Nearly every Google search will net you what their basic beliefs are, which seem (I'm not certain myself) centered around the idea of getting everyone to believe in Scientology or else, which should be completely terrifying in and of itself.

Something I'm also curious about is the numbers of "new recruits" the church is getting. They've been getting flack from nearly every angle and form of the media, and their only form of marketing seems to be the slogan, "We've got celebrities! You worship them, so why not worship us?" Are there still mysteries concerning Scientology or its practices? Do people really not know about some of the stuff they try to pull?

Granted, I know that there has to be a few people that just don't care enough to know (like myself and government), but I would imagine that if a well-minded individual said to a group of friends, "Scientology looks interesting," that the group of friends would do what they could to prevent that person from becoming a self serving, fiscally irresponsible, human being.

That's why they have front organisations like Narconon etc. The newest thing seems to be selling off their "purification rundown" as a health program.

But honestly, I think their stats aren't really that great. As seems to be the case with many cults, most of their recruits actually are children who are born into it. At least that's what I've read.

Calling Scientology "just another religion" is the equivalent to calling cyanide "just another chemical".

Scientology consistently pursues legal action, and in some cases extralegal action on anyone who talks badly about them. No other religion does this, it's analogous to the Catholic Church circa the Inquisition, except (fortunately) less so.

That said, there isn't anything wrong with their beliefs (that is, the stuff about aliens and such, their policies which they call beliefs, are quite dangerous), kooky as I find them, which is why I take care to distinguish between members of the Church of Scientology and Freezoners.

edited 30th Apr '11 12:28:21 PM by SpainSun

I spread my wings and I learn how to fly....

Knowing what the CoS tends to do and treat those that want out of the church, I find this extremely depressing.

Any support groups for these kinds of people? Or legal protection?

I'm imagining a Church of Douchebology clause for legal cases.

I think there are a few organisations for ex-cult members, yes. Legal protection I don't know.

About that cyanide thing: Well, cyanide *is* a chemical compound. Some of those are toxic, and some are way more toxic than others. Scientology is hardly the only group that takes very repressive actions against dropouts. They are the most extreme - by far! -, and they're the only one who abuse the legal system to such an extreme degree (not to speak of their weird practice of videotaping everything); but I wouldn't underestimate the threats of hell and the loss of all friends that, for example, ex-J Ws have to endure.

Oh and yes, the idea that kids are born into scientology is utterly depressing. Some of them never get a chance at a good education or anything resembling a normal life. In fact, the current leader, David Miscavige, was one of those kids. Which is why I have a hard time blaming him for all the evil he's done - he practically had no chance to become a decent citizen, to start with.

edited 30th Apr '11 12:50:26 PM by vijeno

Here, for all these reasons, Scientology is classified not as a religion, but as a cult.

And if not for a timely political maneuver, the Church of Scientology would have been made bankrupt/disbanded/something like that in France for begin an arnaque.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

I read that as Miscarriage.

Still kinda makes sense.

Thanks to legal wrangling, the whole of the Scientology religion only has one church.

For comparison, the whole of the Christian religion only has one Westboro Baptist Church, but it has lots of alternatives for people who want to follow Christianity but not join the WBC.

Speaking of miscarriage I remember hearing actuations of scientology pressuring it's female members into abortions.

I can't think of any other religions that are 'anti-choice' in the other direction.

hashtagsarestupid

Sadly, no, the WBC are just one example of far too many questionable churches.

Check out the Hutaree, and that Florida church which burned the Koran.

Yeah, but that only a few small and extreme branches compared to the vast majority of Christians who, well, aren't actively trying to be dicks.

Scientology has a single church as its only representative and it loves to sue.

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.

Well, I was replying to somebody who said there was only the one WBC, which neglects the many others who behave in a negative fashion.

The other dick churches are a distraction. There is only one that is exactly like the WBC. However, Christianity offers a choice of churches, some of which are less dickish than others, while Scientology has one church that exploits legislation to keep it as the only choice.

Imagine if it was suddenly impossible to follow Christianity without joining the WBC.

I dunno, at least there's only the one Scientology church to avoid, unlike the many less reputable "Christian" ones, that can be an advantage.

Yes, but it makes you need to avoid 100% of Scientology churches and less than 100% of Christian churches. Thus Scientology becomes 100% off-limits.

...now I don't even know who to reply to.

While I don't remember any other religion doing exactly that, but it is present in a number of religions as well.

I won't say any names, but one of the difficulties for an individual leaving "Faith A" is because they are afraid of the social consequences. "Faith A" will not openly say it most of the time, leaving them will result in the threat of going to hell, total damnation, etc. They may or may not openly tell them they'll be going to hell, but they will likely imply what will happen to those leaving them. For others, they will be ostracized in their community or even family just for leaving. Of course, this is mostly done by individual member(s) and not "Faith A" as a whole.

For obvious negative effects other religions can willingly impose on societies as a whole, "Faith B" would denounce the usage of condoms even if they know it is effective at slowing down the spread of AI Ds in a population, purely for their own religious purposes. Another faith will relocate their members in order to help them escape troubles they got themselves into. Both of these examples are the actions of the higher ups in those religions, in other words, the men chosen to represent their faiths.

They're overall less political*

than the Church of Scientology. But that doesn't make them any less questionable.

As for Co S having so much dirt. Asides from being their fault, it also has to do with all the attention being paid towards them. Many people are looking deeply into them specifically to look for dirt, so of course there are more dirt about them that gets revealed to the pubic.

---

For slightly off-topic but still curious point...I want to mention Buddhism. While may or may not be considered a "religion"...have they done anything noticeably questionable in modern days?

Every religion I know of has their hands deep in something nasty. But I fail to find much about Buddhim nowadays.

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Aum Shinrikyo has some Buddhist aspects, but it's not very close.

@Signed: I think you're being a bit too defensive here. In fact, way too much. And you're really not responding to our arguments correctly.

We're not dishing on Scientology because it's 'new' or because it's beliefs are outlandish. No one here cares about these things. Yes, churches may have beliefs which go along the lines of "If not Us, the Hell" or perhaps you may be ostracized within your community if it's particularly devoted, but no other church holds it as the norm to go out of its way to ruin your reputation if you decide you don't like it. No other church makes you pay to reach a higher 'level of purity'. Donations, maybe, but never an 'ascension service' such as this. No other church denies modern medication and shows medical negligence to the point of the death of its followers (not sure about J Ws).

What you are doing is comparing the past doings of churches, or modern doings of fringe churches, to the modern doings of a central church. That is not applicable. Hell, I don't even go to my Catholic church anymore and I'm fine, my family's fine with it, and they're fine with it. Had I been a Scientologist I would be getting harassed constantly.

edited 30th Apr '11 4:42:32 PM by Astrosimi

Though it is true that going apostate in, say, Saudi Arabia is not terribly conducive to your long-term health.

Then again, people tend to complain about that, too.

What's precedent ever done for us?

and : In short, it's a gradual thing. While some small fringe groups do some of the evil things scientology does (and all large religions did some of them at some point), and most probably every bad practice has already been covered by others long before, no one group does it all in a systematic way to that degree, perfectly laid out verbatim in the group's faith articles and holy books.

As I said, scientology is State Of The Art in cults. If you're a newbie in the creating-my-own-cult scene, you definitely want to learn from the masters, not from such sad, merciful, gentle losers as christians, muslims or even those wannabe bigots from the WBC.

A guy called dvorak is tired. Tired of humanity not wanting to change to improve itself. Quite the sad tale.

edited 1st May '11 8:52:59 AM by Vyctorian

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com