The preferred term is Romani.: Roma

According to this article, using the term "Roma" the way this article does is fairly offensive and only acceptable if you're Romani. And it's also wrong according to The Other Wiki's article. Basically, "Romani" is English for "Roma", in the Romani language the correct term is "Roma" but we shouldn't be using the Romani language, and "Roma" also refers to a specific subset of Romani and therefore is exclusionary when used in a more general sense. So, in short, it's wrong, and we need to rename.

Also, the scare quotes around "gypsy" throughout the article need to go, because it's how some people identify and isn't necessarily offensive, but I was thinking I'd just put this out there before fixing it.

ETA: It's not that it has an unfortunate meaning in a different language, it's that in English, it means one ethnic group, and in the Romani language, it has a broader meaning. We are not using the Romani language. "Romani" is much less likely to create confusion.

edited 18th Apr '11 2:16:02 PM by Lullabee

Seems pretty straightforward. Rename sounds like a good idea.

Says who? I'm pretty sure their language is in the public domain.

I think the point is that this is an English-language article. The word Roma means something slightly different in English than it does in the Romani language; anyone reading our article is going to reasonably assume we meant the English meaning of the word.

And if I understand the links correctly, the English meaning is not correct for what the article is trying to say.

I've spoken English my entire life, and the only definition of Roma I was familiar with before now was the broader, more inclusive one. I don't mind if Roma/ni want to be called something different, but the language argument doesn't seem to have much basis.

Raven Wilder, I think the first article I linked pretty much covers that, though. There are some problems with us using words from the Romani language when we don't even speak it. I mean, it's annoying when English-speakers go around speaking Japanese when there's a Perfectly Cromulent Word in English for what they want to say, isn't it? It's annoying even when it doesn't involve terms referring to the identity of the people who speak the language. The Romani language and the term "Roma" have cultural significance. At any rate, arguing that something is correct because that's how it's done in a language you don't speak is an argument that doesn't have much merit.

And, yes, like Meta Four said, the words mean different things in English and in Romani.

So... if you agree with the general point, I think it would be great if we could avoid digressions into sophistry. And you do agree generally, right? It's not accurate and it can cause offense, so we need to change it.

edited 18th Apr '11 12:37:48 AM by Lullabee

Actually, given the highly informal nature of that first page you linked to, I'd probably want to see something else before assuming the term is considered offensive to Roma/ni people in general. Past experience has taught me to be cautious about treating rants by a random blogger as representative examples.

And according to that Wikipedia article, "Although Roma is used as a designation for the branch of the Romani people with historic concentrations in Eastern Europe and the Balkans, it is increasingly encountered during recent decades[22][23] as a generic term for the Romani people as a whole.[24]" So neither term is actually incorrect.

Actually, given the highly informal nature of that first page you linked to, I'd probably want to see something else before assuming the term is considered offensive to Roma/ni people in general. Past experience has taught me to be cautious about treating rants by a random blogger as representative examples.

How about we follow the advice of someone who is actually Romani instead of random non-Romani people who admit to not knowing much about the issue? It's offensive to one person, at the very least, and Romani is not offensive to anyone. Why not change it? Why be difficult about it?

edited 18th Apr '11 5:59:10 AM by sxizzor

↑...Because it is a rant of a random person? I mean, I'm all OK with renaming this, but let's document our basis well, in particular if both names are considered correct (I see reference brackets in the citation).

Yeah, there are a lot of words in English that have unfortunate meanings in other languages.

That said, the name change has been implemented. Roma

edited 19th Apr '11 7:13:23 AM by FastEddie