Brave

Ok. Despite this not failing as hard as Studio 60. Its still something that went From Buzz to Bust.

It made back three times its budget! It made a million dollars more than the maximum projected pre-release! It came in 13th for the year! To say nothing of money from merchandising and home video. You may not like the movie, but it did pretty damn well for itself.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.

1-So making money is all that counts? Then those Ice Age movies are A Triumph for animation.

2-Its actually being a dissapointment in Home Video.

78% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes.

69 on Metacritic.

Look, I get that you don't like that. That's fine. But you can't really prove objectively that the film's a failure.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.

Ok you win. Its still a bitter dissapoinment for people who expected more from Pixar. And when someone bashes Dreamworks for their "mediocre" movies I will point to Brave.

edited 3rd Feb '14 6:54:17 PM by PrettyCoco

Okay.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.

I can't stand Brave. Not that it is an altogether terrible movie, but it really bothers me that so many people buy into the "better princess" nonsense.

Nevertheless, Pixar is still miles ahead of Dream Works.

YES FOR GOD'S SAKE WE KNOW. Stop pointing that out at EVERY point.

And with that, I think we've said everything about this movie that can possibly be said.

Looking for some stories?

Have I mentioned that the woodcarver felt like she belonged more in a point-and-click adventure game than a Disney movie?

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

Why is this thread still active? Why are we still having these arguments? Did we flash back to 2012?

I hope so, there are a few companies I'd like to buy stock in. Got some bets to make, too.

I didn't get to see the movie until this year, so this is now the thread for me!

I still love the brothers.

Eh, I'd say that based on the recent string of outputs, Dreamworks actually has the slight edge.

On topic of Brave. A good year later my opinion has warmed up to the movie. Still have some issues with Merida's characterization, but I'd honestly say the biggest flaw of the movie was what plagued a lot of Disney movies during the 90's: the comic relief. Way too much time was spent on the wacky hijinks the Clans were up to. Given that Brenda Chapman was given the boot, it's hard to say if her "original vision" had a tighter focus on Merida's plot, but the final product was way to uneven and spent too much time on the comic relief.

edited 6th Feb '14 8:35:36 AM by Lionheart0

I agree with you 100 percent about the comic relief. I really thought that there would be way more questing and adventure, but they just had to shove in all those Scottish stereotypes. Kilt lifting? Check. Drunken hijinks? Check. Unintelligible accents? Check.

One thing that I'm still a little confused about is how people react to Merida. Apparently there are some who hate her because of her callousness in the beginning (not that I blame them; she was pretty much a jerk about the whole not caring that her mother may be dying thing), and the others love her because she is a "better princess". What if you're just glad that she has a personality? It may not be a good or nice personality, but she has strengths and weaknessess, and learns a lesson at the end. Even nowadays that can't be said for most princessy characters in Disney flicks.

edited 6th Feb '14 12:48:25 PM by Cougaren

You were irritated you could understand the accents? o_O

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.

Ha ha. I fixed the typo. I mean all of the jokes surrounding Young Ma Guffin's accent and how nobody can understand him. That's pretty much the only use they get out of that character. I guess I thought that Pixar wouldn't have to stoop to make those same tired Scottish jokes. While I don't think Pixar is perfect, I still wish they'd done it better. :/

That guy was the funniest part of the movie. I didn't know that was even a stereotype.

Loves feel-good animation a whole lot.

While I agree that the earliest Disney princesses and even most of the Renaissance princesses were static even when they were trying to buck the Disney princess stereotype, I'd argue that 1998 was when Disney got good at giving its princesses character development while still keeping them likable. Mulan didn't START out as a kickass warrior; she had to learn how to toughen up during a training montage and also gain confidence in herself. Tiana had to learn that there's more to life than just hard work. Anna had to learn that agreeing to marry a complete stranger on the spot is an extremely bad idea, and Elsa had to learn to not be ashamed of her powers and also that she doesn't need to be alone solely because of them. Hell, even Rapunzel, the most "traditional" of the modern Disney princesses, had to learn a very clear lesson that her "mother" didn't know best after all!

Merida actually comes across as having a more generic "spunky princess" personality to me than any of Disney's more recent princesses do because while Mulan, Tiana, Rapunzel, Anna and Elsa have clearly-defined personal reasons other than "because I'm a spunky princess who's supposed to be rebellious and nonconformist!" to perform the risky actions that jumpstart the main plot/conflict, I couldn't shake off the feeling that Merida rebels against her mother mainly because That's What Rebellious Teenage Princesses Are SUPPOSED To Do, Duh.

Mulan entered the war because she wanted to protect her father and also prove that she could be good in something for once, Tiana kissed Naveen because she was desperate to finally fulfill her lifelong dream of opening a restaurant, Rapunzel disobeyed Gothel's orders because her innate curiosity and yearning for freedom from the tower she had been locked up in for eighteen freaking years were so strong that they overrode Gothel's emotional manipulation, Elsa ran away because she didn't want to hurt anyone with her powers ever again, and Anna went out to find her because she still deeply loved her sister in spite of everything.

Merida doesn't want to marry because...she wants to keep on shooting arrows in the forest? Because she thinks all her suitors are icky? Because she thinks her mother never listens to her? There's just not that same emotional or personal heft that there is to, say, Mulan's conflicted desires to make her parents happy and to find out just what kind of person/calling she can be or Anna's desire to reconnect with a sister who seems to be growing irretrievably distant from her.

edited 6th Feb '14 2:46:45 PM by Lemia

I like you.

One doesn't really need an excuse for not wanting to marry, or not wanting to marry right away, anyway.

It was more about Merida and her mother learning to understand each other, and also Merida learning not to feed bewitched food to family.

It's true that Brave doesn't have as much emotional drama as Mulan or Frozen, but it's just a fun movie. It's still enjoyable enough to watch multiple times, for me, anyway.

edited 6th Feb '14 6:11:28 PM by Ruise

Loves feel-good animation a whole lot.

What angers me about Brave is that Merida was a big step back to the princesses in the 1990s (which I really like, but back then, they were a step forward from the Classis ones). Thus said, I liked them all, until Disney and Pixar got this strange idea that they had to "correct" their own output. They sucked the magic out of the Disney Princess movies by making them some sort of statement that everything they did up to this point was wrong, but NOW they are doing it right. It also doesn't help that Merida is supposed to be living in ancient Scotland but acts like a modern teenager.

( for those who say that the idea of marring for love/ Merida having a choice is untrue to history, fun facts ahead. In the...oh mercy. it was the 1400s or 1500s, I can't recall which, my ancestress Agnes of Clan Urquhart was engaged to some guy, but she didn't like him, so she ran off with Hugh Rose of Kilravock. Hugh's da was the sheriff of the area, and had Hugh brought to court because the jilted fiancee was mad. the court, after several days of debate, decided that Agnes could choose who she wanted to , and she chose Hugh, for love. Her parents and his were ok with this and supported the marriage. the ex fiancee wasn't pleased, but whatevs. The animators/story writers were well aware of this story- a number of those who worked in the project are from Clan Rose.)

Got a degree in Emotional trauma via fictional characters aka creative writing. hosting S'mores party in Hell for fellow (evil) writers

...WAT.